Persistent Partial Gel

[NewSoaperID]

Hi all! I was happy to find this soapmaking forum and am excited to join the community!

I was hoping for some advice right off the bat. I made my very first batches of cold process soap in the past week and a half, and I seem to be getting partial gel no matter what I do. I used the "Simple and Gentle Soap Project" from Brambleberry here, in a 10 inch loaf mold: Simple and Gentle Soap Project | BrambleBerry

Everything seems to be going ok, except each time I am getting a big ugly brown circle in the middle of my soap, no matter what I do. My first two tries were mixing at around 125ish, in my garage, which is admittedly very cold - I'm in Idaho. I let the first one sit uncovered in the garage and got a brown spot. So for my second batch, I brought the loaf inside to cool at room temperature, and I got a very slightly smaller, but darker, brown spot. The third time, I mixed at around 105 degrees and popped it in the fridge over night to try to prevent any gel phase, and got whiter, softer borders but that persistent brown spot. The fourth time, I mixed at 125, brought it inside, covered the top with wood, wrapped it in a blanket, and put it on a heating pad set on high. Unsurprisingly, I ended up with "alien brain," but assumed this time it would have gelled all the way through. But I cut it today, and still have the brown spot with light borders, although the borders are almost nonexistent. I'm attaching a picture of the progression of my batches. You can ignore the purple on the end - this was my fifth try, but I cut the recipe in half, and for the first time added color and fragrance. I let it sit wrapped on a heating pad after and still got a ring in the middle but you can barely see it, I guess because of the color.

Does anyone have any ideas what is going on? Is the partial gel happening because my molds and tools are stored in the garage so very cold? Is it because I'm in the high desert at high altitude? Is it somehow this particular recipe? This is so frustrating to be dealing with right off the bat, but I am working hard to not get discouraged!

I would be forever grateful for any input here!

NewSoaperID

 

[Catscankim]

Try cpop'ing it. Cold Process Oven Process. I turn the oven on to 170, and after I put the batch in the oven, I just turn it off. The original way of doing it is to leave the light on, which I have done and had good success, but my light burned out and I can't get it out of the socket LOL. So from then on I have just turned off the heat and let it chill in there wrapped in towels. It always works for me just fine, but you can just leave the light on if that works for you too. I have always gotten full gel from doing it this way

 

[CreativeWeirdo]

I'm in Canada and I just put my soaps in a cold oven and it's enough to insulate to gel the whole thing.

That drastic difference in look might go away while it cures. Give it a few weeks. As quickly as the soap batter takes to actually mix it up and pour, soap making is a lesson in patience. This is a new skill; there is going to be a learning curve. Have fun with it and enjoy the process! Be proud that you've made soap! You'll never really make the same batch twice, enjoy the uniqueness of everyone. You deserve it!

You got this!

 

[KiwiMoose]

It sounds like your recipe might be to blame. I had a look at your link but couldn't see the ratios of oils without purchasing the recipe. CO can heat up, so if there is more than 20% of it that could be the culprit.
In addition, have you tried soaping at around 90 degrees? Starting out at 125 is giving your soap an overheating 'heat start' so yes - your cold molds could be cooling the batter on the outer edges while the soap is heating up on the interior.

 

[Zing]

Are you opposed to gelling? It's a personal preference. I personally like to gel because it makes for better color definition. Also, welcome to the forum!

 

[Carly B]

It sounds like your recipe might be to blame. I had a look at your link but couldn't see the ratios of oils without purchasing the recipe. CO can heat up, so if there is more than 20% of it that could be the culprit.
In addition, have you tried soaping at around 90 degrees? Starting out at 125 is giving your soap an overheating 'heat start' so yes - your cold molds could be cooling the batter on the outer edges while the soap is heating up on the interior.

Not to hijack, but what happened when you clicked on the link? It took me right to the recipe:

​

• 8 oz. Coconut Oil (24%)
• 15 oz. Olive Oil (44%)
• 11 oz. Palm Oil (32%)
• 4.8 oz. Lye
• 11.2 oz. Distilled Water

I was wondering if you were getting blocked for some reason because of a NZ IP address. I'd never heard of something like that before.

 

[DeeAnna]

Some of your batches do show partial gel -- certainly batches 2 and 3 (second and third from left). The "bullseye" round or oval center is the give-away of partial gel. Try increasing the lye concentration. The recipe given by Mobjack Bay is at 30% lye concentration. Raise that to 33% lye concentration and see if you get more consistent results.

Some batches, however, have a different color "rind" that parallels the outer edge of the soap. The Batch 4 (fourth from the left) bars have a rind, based on what I'm seeing in your photo. This is not caused by partial gel. A rind is often due to a reaction between something in your soap (often a colorant) and the open air. As time goes on, the entire surface of the soap will usually become the same color as the rind.

Another possibility is heavy ash formation on the outer surface and corners of the bars. Your photo is distant enough I can't tell if this is an issue or not.

 

[NewSoaperID]

You all are amazing! Thank you so much for your expert insight. And I am so grateful for your encouragement. I’m not opposed to gelling at all, or not gelling for that matter! I just don’t want the two-tone result of partial gel.

I will definitely try out these suggestions, the CPOP, mixing at a cooler temp, and a different recipe. And I will sprinkle in some patience and see how those bars change over the next few weeks.

Thank you again!

 

[Ford]

Ambient room temperature will add to the variables. Had several false traces last winter. Got heat this winter.

 

[Zing]

You all are amazing! Thank you so much for your expert insight. And I am so grateful for your encouragement. I’m not opposed to gelling at all, or not gelling for that matter! I just don’t want the two-tone result of partial gel.

I will definitely try out these suggestions, the CPOP, mixing at a cooler temp, and a different recipe. And I will sprinkle in some patience and see how those bars change over the next few weeks.

Thank you again!

Um, what is this 'patience' thing you talk of?

 

[AliOop]

You all are amazing! Thank you so much for your expert insight. And I am so grateful for your encouragement. I’m not opposed to gelling at all, or not gelling for that matter! I just don’t want the two-tone result of partial gel.

I will definitely try out these suggestions, the CPOP, mixing at a cooler temp, and a different recipe. And I will sprinkle in some patience and see how those bars change over the next few weeks.

Thank you again!

I know a lot of people use their ovens to force gel via CPOP, but to me, the disadvantages of that include:

1. smell transfer of the FOs or EOs to the oven, and then to any food baked in the oven;
2. tying up the oven so it can't be used for other things;
3. risking that someone will turn on the oven with the soap in it; and
4. moving your mold full of sloshy caustic soap batter from your soaping area into the oven.

For those reasons, my favorite way to force gel is to put the mold on an inexpensive heating pad. I turn it on high, then insulate everything with an overturned box, an insulated food bag, or some towels. I turn it off after an hour, leaving the residual heat to do the rest of the work. My soap never has to leave my soap room, my oven isn't tied up or perfumed, and I get a nice gel every time.

 

[DeeAnna]

....moving your mold full of sloshy caustic soap batter from your soaping area into the oven...

A tip for this issue is to pour the soap in the mold and then wait around 10-15 minutes until the soap has thickened and is no longer liquidy. Then move the molded soap wherever it needs to go.

I don't CPOP but I do move my molded soap out of the kitchen into my pantry to finish saponifying. I learned this little lesson accidentally when I was a little slower than usual in moving a filled mold. It dawned on me that maybe this was a good example of the old adage "slower is faster". It doesn't take a long time for the soap batter to get firm enough to move with less risk.

 

[TheGecko]

4. moving your mold full of sloshy caustic soap batter from your soaping area into the oven.

Like @DeeAnna I soap in the kitchen, but cure my soap else-where...the garage. And like her, I let the soap sit a bit while I'm cleaning up for the next batch and then move it. If it is still a bit 'sloshy'...I just move it over and move on to making my next batch.

Does anyone have any ideas what is going on?

It could be any number of things...the oils you are using, Lye Concentration, additives, colorants, scent.

I don't gel any of my soaps. I did when I first started, but didn't like the hassle and then sometimes only getting partial gel. I soap at around 85F-90F. I'm in the South Willamette Valley in Oregon and with the exception of a few weeks when we get really hot weather, my garage stays about 10 degrees cooler than outside and gets air circulation since it's not insulated well. But when it's 80+ in my garage, I clean out the bottom shelf of my frig and put my soaps in the back when it is the coldest.

My suggestion is to increase you Lye Concentration so you are using less water, and lower your overall soaping temperature. Because I use Palm Oil I make sure to melt my oils at around 120F and give them a good stir, then let them cool down to about 110F and then add my Lye Solution which is around 70F. Try a small plain batch first, then try an add your scent.

 

[cmzaha]

I never CPOP for some of the reasons ALI mentions above. One if your soap does happen to go over in the oven and the batter is fresh enough it will very possibly ruin your oven finish.

My method of soaping and my recipes causes me to have to force gel even in the hot summer months here in So Cal unless I am using a fragrance that I know overheats.

I soap with a 31-33% lye concentration (depending on my recipe), with room temp lye. I melt my hard oils until just clear. After mixing and pouring my batter into the mold I place the mold in a shallow crate and place the crate on a heating pad and cover it with a heating lap blanket. I will check periodically checking for overheating or signs that the batter is gelling nicely, and turn off the heat pad. This can come with a tad of experience.

If the soap has started to liquefy (overheating) I will open the lid, and/or aim a fan on the crate to start cool-down. This usually will not happen at this lye concentration but with lower lye concentrations which means more water has been used overheating occurs with higher possibility and quicker.

Sorry to say in order to acquire constant results many times requires using consistency. When experimenting with recipes different oils and percentages, fragrances, liquids used, etc all come into play with gelling soap. Time patience lots of Soap!! I am sure all of us have dealt with partial gels.

But gelling your soap in a low crate can save you messes in case of spills, a volcano and anything else that can go wrong when making soap...

 

[CreativeWeirdo]

I never have a problem with FO transfer to food... but that's just me. I, too, hate partial gel, and I find it easier to full gel than to try and prevent any gel at all. Before I started placing my soap in a cold oven to insulate, I would wrap it in towels and an electric blanket.

 

[KiwiMoose]

Not to hijack, but what happened when you clicked on the link? It took me right to the recipe:

​

• 8 oz. Coconut Oil (24%)
• 15 oz. Olive Oil (44%)
• 11 oz. Palm Oil (32%)
• 4.8 oz. Lye
• 11.2 oz. Distilled Water

I was wondering if you were getting blocked for some reason because of a NZ IP address. I'd never heard of something like that before.

Oh - it asks me to 'add it to my cart' but no recipe is visible:

 

[ToniO]

Oh - it asks me to 'add it to my cart' but no recipe is visible:
View attachment 70746

KiwiMoose, if you scroll down, you'll see the 'instructions' tab next to 'supplies'. The recipe is there when you click on that.

 

[ToniO]

NewSoaper, I don't generally force gel since I make mostly goat milk soaps.
These days I use mostly GM powder b/c it's so much easier to work the lye with discounted distilled water and add the powder afterwards (no discoloration and I can add extra powder to reconstitute to a full water level). I soap them @ 85 F if I can, and put logs in the freezer overnight and individual molds in the fridge. If you do this though, make sure you give your soap enough time to both unfreeze and saponify before you cut. Ask me how I know, lol!
If I want to ensure full gel, I'll also CPOP (but only at 135 F for an hour and then turn off oven and leave overnight), after soaping in the mid-90's F. I spray with 99% alcohol, cover with a raised lid and then wrap with a towel. So far that's worked for me.
The partial gel soaps will still work wonderfully, can be made look pro with a vegetable peeler on the edges and the bullseye will fade over time. None of your family/friends will know that it wasn't intended!!
Full warning, it's a very addictive pastime!! Have fun!

 

[user 58006]

NewSoaper, I don't generally force gel since I make mostly goat milk soaps.
These days I use mostly GM powder b/c it's so much easier to work the lye with discounted distilled water and add the powder afterwards (no discoloration and I can add extra powder to reconstitute to a full water level). I soap them @ 85 F if I can, and put logs in the freezer overnight and individual molds in the fridge. If you do this though, make sure you give your soap enough time to both unfreeze and saponify before you cut. Ask me how I know, lol!
If I want to ensure full gel, I'll also CPOP (but only at 135 F for an hour and then turn off oven and leave overnight), after soaping in the mid-90's F. I spray with 99% alcohol, cover with a raised lid and then wrap with a towel. So far that's worked for me.
The partial gel soaps will still work wonderfully, can be made look pro with a vegetable peeler on the edges and the bullseye will fade over time. None of your family/friends will know that it wasn't intended!!
Full warning, it's a very addictive pastime!! Have fun!

When you put the soap in the oven tar 135 . You leaving on for hr correct ? Also no lid at that time ?