Pasteurized? Or Not?

[Seifenblasen]

Gryfonmoon wrote:I do know that in some states. you can legally purchase unpasteurized milk for animal feed. So if you tell them it's for your pet, then you might get by that way.

If you want to build a working relationship with someone, lying is probably not best way to do it.

Truth is I know many small time goat herders and farmers who will sell unpasteurized milk no questions asked.

I agree with you 100% that honesty is the best policy in doing business.

In defense of the suggestion about telling farmers that you are using it for pet food, it is sometimes necessary to protect the farmers. At least where I live, it is illegal to sell unpasteurized milk for human consumption. The people at the health department never thought of soap making, but realized that sometimes goat milk is used for orphaned animals, when they drafted those draconian laws. If a farmer knowingly sells unpasteurized milk without the expressed understanding that it is used for pet food, and labelled as such, he/she can get into trouble with the law.

So, technically speaking, it is lying. The spirit of the law - to prevent human consumption of unpasteurized milk, however, would not have been violated when the milk is used in soap.

Some farmers get around the prohibition of "selling" unpasteurized milk by selling shares of the animal. Technically I own part of a cow. I pay the farmer a certain sum of money each month to feed and take care of "my" cow. In exchange, each week she gives me a jar of unpasteurized milk from my own cow as there is nothing in the law that stops me from drinking it straight from the udder! :mrgreen:

 

[bonnyny]

Last year, our local goat farm in NY was able to sell raw goat milk as long as it was used for soapmaking. The laws in NY have since changed and she is now able to sell raw milk to the public.

Here is a site to check on the state laws: http://www.realmilk.com/milk-laws-4.html

 

[bonnyny]

Here's another: http://www.farmtoconsumer.org/raw_milk_map.htm

 

[Elfknight]

Here's my opinion on homogenized and pastuerized milk, not a scientific fact given my occupation:

I would imagine pasteurized would be be better for soap since bacteria would not be chewing up your fats in the time between milking and soaping, or freezing. Also depending how fast the pH drops to the 9-10 range some bacteria might survive that, albeit not many. I'm curious to have our lab test some of my homemade soaps for bacterial load. Or maybe spike a batch with Brucella (a common milk pathogen) to see how well it does.

Homogenization: I think this would simply lead to more consistent results from the same batch of milk from soap batch to soap batch. It should keep the milk fats consistently distributed through out.

Rich.

 

[Gryfonmoon]

I do know that in some states. you can legally purchase unpasteurized milk for animal feed. So if you tell them it's for your pet, then you might get by that way.

If you want to build a working relationship with someone, lying is probably not best way to do it.

Truth is I know many small time goat herders and farmers who will sell unpasteurized milk no questions asked.

Obviously, if they don't ask, no need to say anything.

And the 'lying' would be to protect the farmer as someone had pointed out, not to mention myself. And it wouldn't even be a lie, my cats love goat's milk.

 

[Seifenblasen]

Here's my opinion on homogenized and pastuerized milk, not a scientific fact given my occupation:

I would imagine pasteurized would be be better for soap since bacteria would not be chewing up your fats in the time between milking and soaping, or freezing. Also depending how fast the pH drops to the 9-10 range some bacteria might survive that, albeit not many. I'm curious to have our lab test some of my homemade soaps for bacterial load. Or maybe spike a batch with Brucella (a common milk pathogen) to see how well it does.

Rich.

Would love to hear the results!

I do believe if you are making cold process soap, the heat could easily destroy any Brucella bacteria. My gelled soap routinely stays above 55C for several hours.

http://www.jstor.org/discover/10.2307/3 ... 1443743463

Pasteurization temperature for milk is only 71.6C for 20 seconds or 63C for 30 minutes.

*Edited to include reference. (Granted, it is a very old paper, but I do not have my other infectious disease journals on hand).

 

[chicklet]

I would love to hear the results as well. When I make homemade yogurt, I heat the raw milk to 180 F so I'm pretty sure a lot of bacteria is killed then, and I sterilize my jars before putting the cultured milk in them so that I'm not culturing any bad bacteria. For my homemade buttermilk, though, I don't heat it before I add the buttermilk culture to it. I would really be interested in any lab tests to determine how much, if any, bacteria in milk survives the lye.