palmitic acid, castor oil and stearic acid

[Bum Run Bay Rum]

Has any one tried these three together as the only oils in your soaps? how creamy is the lather? I have left over castor and stearic but had to order the palmitic acid its gonna be about a week or two so I would like to know what to expect before it gets here.

 

[shunt2011]

I’ve not used this in combination. Why are you interested in using those specifically. What kind of soap are you making. And are you doing CP or HP. I can tell you that if trying to do CP it will be a problem. Stearic will make the soap trace almost immediately.

 

[Bum Run Bay Rum]

im trying to see if this could make a good shave soap with phenomenal lathering, I'm thinking hot process soap what are your thoughts.

 

[shunt2011]

There s a great shave soap thread with so much information. Let me see if I can find it.

 

[runnerchicki]

https://www.soapmakingforum.com/threads/my-first-shaving-soap-is-a-success.34264/

Pack a lunch ... it's a LONG read, but loads of information.

 

[shunt2011]

https://www.soapmakingforum.com/threads/my-first-shaving-soap-is-a-success.34264/

Pack a lunch ... it's a LONG read, but loads of information.

Thank you, I found it but couldn’t link it on my iPad.

 

[DeeAnna]

A shave soap recipe really needs some myristic and lauric acid and a little oleic to increase the solubility. Castor and stearic-palmitic acids are going to make a low solubility soap that might eventually lather okay, but it's going to take a lot of work to build that lather.

You will have to use a hot process method. That's the only practical method given you're wanting to soap with fatty acids.

 

[Bum Run Bay Rum]

ok I made my stearic/palmitic acid castor oil I added 13oz castor oil 8oz of palmitic and 80z of stearic with about 4oz of vegetable glycerin and 2oz of sodium lactate I cooked it for a few minutes on high, and I recently used it on my scalp and beard and everything was good, it felt a little less slick then my other soaps the blade caused no irritation to my scalp or face. it seems to lather pretty quickly but the soap that I mash into my bowl seems to disappear far quicker then the other soaps I mash into the bowl. I might add that clay that slickens the soap to see if that would slick it up a bit. here's a couple of pics.

 

[DeeAnna]

I'm not a wet shaver dude, and even I think the lather looks weak and thin in the photos. I'm not surprised you think the lather isn't very slick.

If you're testing recipes, why are you making such a huge batch? Especially since you're winging the recipe, rather than riffing on someone else's recipe. I'd suggest using only 16 oz / 500 g of fats. Even less if your scale is accurate enough.

 

[shunt2011]

Did you read the thread that was linked above. You can tweak the recipes in there to suit you. But it's a great shave soap and starting point to play. I agree with DeeAnna, make smaller batches. Especially since you're not happy with what you've got.

 

[Nanette]

Bentonite?

 

[Bum Run Bay Rum]

ya i think the soap is sub par compared to the other recipe I use normally but I saw how far the creaminess went up to the 90's in soapcalc and become extremly interested in making it I really wish I had a second pair of bowl and brush for a side by side comparison my thought was to get as close as possible to how creamy barbasol spray is. and yes next time ill be making a waay smaller batch and hey I actually have 2, 32 ounce mason jars filled with this stuff if anybody wants to try it ill send you a jar, (I will pay shipment...within reason) and also what does conditioning and cleansing mean in the side bar on the left of the soap calc website mean?

 

[Nanette]

Conditioning is a somewhat misleading term that indicates the degree to which your choice of oils in your soap wont strip all the natural oils off your skin and leave you feeling very dry. Cleansing is the degree to which your soap oils will strip the natural oils off your skin, very possibly leaving you dry. ..

 

[Bum Run Bay Rum]

ah yes thank you for the clear up.

 

[Bum Run Bay Rum]

ok I have another idea...well the same but with oleic acid instead of palmitic, and instead of 29 total ounces like the last time i wanna go for 4 ounces total mainly because I only got about over an ounce of stearic acid left but Im having trouble with the amount of water and sodium/potassium hydroxide to use can anybody help with it?

 

[Nostalgicgranny]

It was my understanding that shaving soap needs about 60% stearic to be successful. It's the stearic that helps with the fluffy lather lasting longer. Is there some reason you are looking palmitic?
Also since you mentioned being low on stearic. Some hard butters are high in stearic. You could up or add those to your recipe to bring the stearic up higher.

 

[DeeAnna]

It's the combined stearic and palmitic that you want to have high enough in a shave soap. The usual commercial "stearic" acid is roughly half palmitic, half stearic. You can buy higher grade stuff that's mostly or all stearic, but the shaver dudes who have sourced this higher quality stearic and tried it in their shave soap report there isn't any great improvement.

I have no idea why a person would want to make a "shave soap" with a high % of oleic acid. If you're making bath soap, well, okay. But not shave soap.

I'm going to suggest again that you riff on someone else's recipe that has a track record of being a decent shave soap. If you don't want to read Songwind's long thread here on SMF, try this instead -- https://www.silverfoxcrafts.com/part-1-silver-fox-shaving-soap-the-beginning/

The way to figure out water and alkali weights is to use a soap recipe calculator. No one is going to do this work for you. Calculating a soap recipe is a basic skill you need to learn. Here are three reputable calcs --
https://www.soapmakingfriend.com/soap-making-recipe-builder-lye-calculator/
http://soapee.com/calculator
http://soapcalc.net/calc/SoapCalcWP.asp

 

[Bum Run Bay Rum]

well thanks for the help you guys I'm waiting for the oil to arrive, i was having trouble with the lye NOH and NAOH I wasnt sure if I just leave them at 50/50 on the soap calc websites or do I have one at 60 and another at 40? because the tallow based recipe I follow has KOH at 4.02 and the NAOH at 2.58 of a 29 oz oil recipe. but I guess I cant go wrong with the standard 50/50 setting.

 

[Bum Run Bay Rum]

Ok this should be my finale update about the caster Oleic and stearic recipe. And it was a huge failure as people here predicted, the lather would gather only when incredible effort Was put into swirling the brush against the mug but as soon as I stopped the lather would immediately start to destabilize, and making a sound like pouring milk into a bowl of snap crackle pop cereal as it was destabilizing .
So far the castor, palmitic, and a stearic variation create a phenomenal lather but unlike other great shave soaps that leave that refreshing scent of the soap after its been wash off, this one leaves a strange almost chemical smell on the face. My thanks go to everybody in this thread for helping me with my foolish experiments.

 

[linne1gi]

I'm not a wet shaver dude, and even I think the lather looks weak and thin in the photos. I'm not surprised you think the lather isn't very slick.

If you're testing recipes, why are you making such a huge batch? Especially since you're winging the recipe, rather than riffing on someone else's recipe. I'd suggest using only 16 oz / 500 g of fats. Even less if your scale is accurate enough.

I heartily agree! So many people on soaping groups that are new soapers are making these huge batches of soap (like 5 pounds of soap!) and asking advice (is this recipe going to be hard? or is this recipe balanced?) Dude! If you don't know anything about soaping why are you making 5 pounds of the stuff? Drives me crazy. Rant over.