Palm Oil alternatives?

[topofmurrayhill]

Interesting. Thank you for sharing your thoughts. I was wondering about sunflower oil as a substitute because I can get it locally at a great price and it has no smell whatsoever, that I can discern anyway.

Be careful about this Valerie. I believe she was thinking of the high-oleic sunflower oil, which is a special type that was developed through plant breeding.

HO sunflower is a very good oleic soaping oil in the same ballpark as olive oil. I get it from SC and use it quite a lot. It's light colored, essentially odorless and low in linoleic acid.

Unfortunately it's pretty likely that your local suppliers of sunflower oil have the ordinary linoleic variety. I would not consider that suitable for soaping, and most others would probably say it's only suitable in small quantities.

The important point is that these are two entirely different oils even though both are produced by sunflowers. They will produce entirely different results, so there needs to be explicit labeling to tell you what you're buying.

 

[valerieinthegallery]

Be careful about this Valerie. I believe she was thinking of the high-oleic sunflower oil, which is a special type that was developed through plant breeding.

HO sunflower is a very good oleic soaping oil in the same ballpark as olive oil. I get it from SC and use it quite a lot. It's light colored, essentially odorless and low in linoleic acid.

Unfortunately it's pretty likely that your local suppliers of sunflower oil have the ordinary linoleic variety. I would not consider that suitable for soaping, and most others would probably say it's only suitable in small quantities.

The important point is that these are two entirely different oils even though both are produced by sunflowers. They will produce entirely different results, so there needs to be explicit labeling to tell you what you're buying.

Right! I was thinking of using either the linoleic in small amounts just to sub some of the olive oil, or use larger amounts of the HO sunflower which I can get still cheaper than olive oil.

 

[Saponista]

Regular sunflower oil used in high quantities makes really soft sticky horrible soap. I learnt the hard way. However, I shoved the bars in a cupboard for a year and now they have hardened up properly the soap is really quite nice. They haven't developed dos either.

 

[cmzaha]

Cupuacu Butter has bar qualities of 54 0 44 0 43, which is comparable to Palm Oil's qualities 50 1 49 1 49. So, the same amount of cupuacu would make a harder bar of soap without pushing up creaminess quite so much.

Here are some more possibilities of oils that have bar qualities similar to Palm.


Shea Butter 45 0 54 0 45
Tallow Deer 45 1 48 1 44
Coffee Bean Oil, green 46 0 50 0 46
Mowrah Butter 46 0 51 0 46
Palmolein 46 1 54 1 45
Mango Seed Butter 49 0 48 0 49
Kpangnan Butter 50 0 50 0 50
Palm Oil 50 1 49 1 49
Red Palm Butter 50 1 49 1 49
Sal Butter 50 0 42 0 50
Saw Palmetto Extract 50 40 40 40 10
Tallow Sheep 51 14 31 14 37
Saw Palmetto Oil 53 42 36 42 11
Cupuacu Butter 54 0 44 0 43
Walmart GV Shortening 54 5 44 5 49
Ghee, any bovine 55 15 22 15 40
Milk Fat, any bovine 55 15 22 15 40
Tallow Beef 58 8 40 8 50

Forget the Ghee, it really stinks in soap
I use a lot of sunflower and it has never come down with dos. I do keep it in the 15-20% range

 

[grayterisk]

Saw Palmetto Extract

I am VERY allergic to coconut oil and tree nuts so i dont want to risk babassu oil. I've created a soap recipe suited for me but it calls for saw palmetto extract. Where can i buy saw palmetto extract for CP soap making? Please help!! thank you.

 

[Lion Of Judah]

I am VERY allergic to coconut oil and tree nuts so i dont want to risk babassu oil. I've created a soap recipe suited for me but it calls for saw palmetto extract. Where can i buy saw palmetto extract for CP soap making? Please help!! thank you.

have you tried any of the animal fats?

 

[Dorymae]

Just wanted to add in the US the oil you are looking for is sold as a supplement product in small quantities like essential oil. To buy in any quantity will be expensive.

 

[grayterisk]

I am vegan, organic, and i live in Alabama, USA.

 

[IrishLass]

I am looking to make soap without CO because i get a horrible rash from coconut oil soaps and lotions. i've been allergy tested for coconut and it is for sure the CO that is the issue. I need a tree nut free recipe as well. *sighs
I have finally come up with one on soapcalc but it requires saw palmetto extract. Anybody know where to get a pure grade saw palmetto for soapmaking online?

Interesting! I confess to never have seen how much myristic and lauric acids were naturally contained in saw palmetto. Cool beans!

As for where to find a pure grade for soap-making.....I confess I don't know the answer to that. The only saw palmetto I have ever seen is the dry form or oil form sold as a supplement in capsules in small bottles at the health food store. I really don't now how much luck you'll have finding it in the bulk quantities that would be needed for soap-making since I've never seen it offered for sale at any of the soap-making supply sites that I buy my oils from.

For what it's worth, if you live anywhere near Georgia or Florida in the US, you might be able to obtain it in bulk form since the herb grows profusely there and is extracted/manufactured there.

Hopefully more people that are 'in the know' will chime in soon.


IrishLass

 

[grayterisk]

Just wanted to add in the US the oil you are looking for is sold as a supplement product in small quantities like essential oil. To buy in any quantity will be expensive.

I realize that and I am okay with paying for quality product. but all since i want pure saw palmetto a supplement wouldnt be the answer since they contain added glycerins, alcohols, and cellulose. I've been investigating them all week but haven't found one pure saw palmetto.

 

[grayterisk]

have you tried any of the animal fats?

I only use veggie base oils thank you. I will be using my recipe with goat milk to make milk soap. these soaps will be going in my hair as well so animal fats arent the best because of buildup as well.

 

[cmzaha]

If you are determined to use lard, you may just need to give yourself time to get used to the idea, that's all. It took me a year to get over palm despite knowing I didn't want to contribute to the global need for it. (I've used about 50 lbs of lard since November, and saved the need for 50 lbs of palm)

(To all SMF members and readers; this is not an attempt to guilt trip anyone who uses palm. I answer to my own need to not actively contribute to increasing the threat to many endangered creatures.)

As for Olive oil - I just don't like it in soap. For one reason - most supplies of olive oil are adulterated. In the beginning I bought cheap Wal Mart oo, and in a year, those bars (used 30% oo) developed dos. Then I started buying the oo that was tested and proven to be 100% pure oo. No dos, but I found the higher the percentage of oo used, the longer it took for the bar to cure and become the best it could be.

Also, knowing that olive oil is a very healthy choice for food use (except cooking), coupled with the fact that it has a limited supply and often subject the the whims of weather, I decided I'd rather save it for human consumption.

I'm happy to replace it with high oleic safflower oil, which I think makes a silkier lather. However, I'd like it to be even silkier, so that could change. Haven't tried sunflower oil yet because I haven't found it locally.

I like avocado oil, but live here in drought stricken California. Avocado and its oil should be saved for food, especially since it takes a lot of water to farm them.

I've played with rice bran oil, and liked it....but can no longer find it locally.

My current favorite recipe is a mix of tallow/lard, 10% safflower, 5 % castor.

Not knowing where in California you live in if it is So CA you can buy Sunflower HO at Cibaria Soap Supplies in Riverside and Rice Bran in 35 lb totes at Restaurant Depot

 

[LBussy]

Vegan, organic, AND you are allergic to nuts ... yeah, good luck.

 

[grayterisk]

Vegan, organic, AND you are allergic to nuts ... yeah, good luck.

Been making my own products for over 4 years, no issues finding ingredients until the saw palmetto incident. i just want it to saponify.

 

[galaxyMLP]

It is likely that you will be best using a bastile soap with olive oil and castor. That's about it though. I don't think castor is a tree nut at least... Maybe some high oleic sunflower oil too? But that so close to olive oil it may not be worth it...

ETA: A thought for you may also be "salting out" your soap and adding back in glycerin. This would likely remove most of the allergens and since your allergy is not life threatening, it may be worth it. It does take forever though. But there's a great thread on it.

 

[grayterisk]

this is my recipe, made for me. soapcalc pdf linked below for coconut and tree nut free soap recipes. i myself am not allergic to nuts but i make soap for people that are. my shop is called made4hypersensitives and I help those people out that are suffering from dermatitis due to soap. i have burns on me from coconut oil soaps, dawn dish liquid, germx, etc. if i can find the saw palmetto i will be able to provide to those and are coconut and tree nut free. I am also using olive oil and palm oil but saw palmetto is what gives it such great lather and bubbles.

View attachment tree nut allergy soap base.pdf

View attachment allergy friendly soap base.pdf

 

[galaxyMLP]

The thing is, saw palmetto is related to palm trees. If someone is allergic to palm, or other tree nuts, I'd say it's likely that they would be allergic to saw palmetto.

Also, saw palmetto oil is extremely expensive and not going to be available in large quantities. I used to work at a food testing lab and we got about 2 oz of the stuff once to do a fatty acid profile. It also contains some very long chain fatty acids that are not listed in soap calc in higher that "normal" oil quantities. That may effect the soap in ways you are not expecting. And if I'm not mistaken, it is also high in unsaponifiables. I know it didn't dissolve like normal fats in our solvent extraction procedure.

 

[grayterisk]

The thing is, saw palmetto is related to palm trees. If someone is allergic to palm, or other tree nuts, I'd say it's likely that they would be allergic to saw palmetto.

Also, saw palmetto oil is extremely expensive and not going to be available in large quantities. I used to work at a food testing lab and we got about 2 oz of the stuff once to do a fatty acid profile. It also contains some very long chain fatty acids that are not listed in soap calc in higher that "normal" oil quantities. That may effect the soap in ways you are not expecting. And if I'm not mistaken, it is also high in unsaponifiables. I know it didn't dissolve like normal fats in our solvent extraction procedure.

I ran it through the soapcalc. findings linked above. According to the cdc saw palmetto reactions or allergies are unheard of. babassu is more likely to cause a reaction. also, i couldnt find any reports of palm oil allergies.

 

[galaxyMLP]

I've just heard of people with tropical nut allergies but I failed to realize palm oil comes from the tree itself and not a nut. You sound pretty set on your recipe. I would just go with it then if you can find saw palmetto.

 

[The Efficacious Gentleman]

I can't open the pdf (it's just easier if you list the ingredients and their amounts) but one thing to bear in mind is that body soaps are not always good hair soaps.

Another thing to bear in mind is that all soap will clean you, regardless of bubbles. Make your recipe without this unobtainium extract and it will clean you fine and dandy, even if it doesn't lather one bit.

Also, if you're vegan you can't use the milk of a goat in the soap. As a vegetarian you could, but not as a vegan.