Oil breakdown of Saporito Pomace Oil With Extra Virgin Olive Oil

[BrianV]

I'm sorry if this is in the wrong place, but I wanted to post this for anyone else that is looking for info on this product. moved

In Canada, at least, Saporito Foods sells a product in the local grocery stores called 'Olive Pomace Oil with Extra Virgin Olive Oil' for ~$12.50 for a 3L jug. The web page for the product is at http://www.saporitofoods.com/products/olive-oils/olive-pomace-oil.php

I bought it, thinking it was a pomace product with some small EVOO percentage mixed in for marketing benefit. When I got home, I saw on the back that it has Canola mixed in (see http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=57628).

I emailed the company to ask about the mix of oils present in the product, and they replied very quickly and helpfully with the following breakdown:

50% Pomace Oil
35% Canola Oil
15% Extra Virgin Olive Oil

Now, time to figure out some recipes to use this oil. Obviously, I want to dilute it so the Canola percentage is <15%, ideally, to help avoid DOS.

 

[Steve85569]

"Now, time to figure out some recipes to use this oil. Obviously, I want to dilute it so the Canola percentage is <15%, ideally, to help avoid DOS."

So it sounds like you will be using this oil at right around 30% in concert with other oils to keep the canola down to about 12%.
17% Pomace
12% Canola
5% EVO

And blend from there. Complicates your inputs for your lye calculations but lets you utilise the less expensive oil.
Does that help at all?

 

[BrianV]

"Now, time to figure out some recipes to use this oil. Obviously, I want to dilute it so the Canola percentage is <15%, ideally, to help avoid DOS."

So it sounds like you will be using this oil at right around 30% in concert with other oils to keep the canola down to about 12%.
17% Pomace
12% Canola
5% EVO

And blend from there. Complicates your inputs for your lye calculations but lets you utilise the less expensive oil.
Does that help at all?

That's roughly what I had in mind. Option 'B' would be to come up with a SAP number for this blend, and treat it like it's own product keeping in mind what the individual products add to the final soap.

All three oils have very similar NaOH SAPs:

Pomace oil: 0.134
Olive Oil: 0.135
Canola Oil: 0.133

Combining these oils in their relative percentages gives me a NaOH SAP of 0.134 (0.1338, rounded to 0.134 due to 3 significant digits in the original numbers)

They also combine to give the FA profile below (stolen from SoapCalc):

Lauric: 0
Myristic: 0
Palmitic: 11
Stearic: 3
Ricinoleic: 0
Oleic: 66
Linoleic: 15
Linolenic: 4

Of course, actually using these derivative numbers is a bit tougher than just throwing the composite oils in SoapCalc to build a recipe... Perhaps I should just do it that way

 

[BrianV]

My first attempt at a recipe, using 30% of this oil:

50% Lard
20% Coconut oil
15% Pomace Oil
4.5% Olive Oil
10.5% Canola Oil

The last three ingredients are the components of the oil from this thread. SoapCalc seems to suggest this should be a well-balanced bar. Perhaps I'll try it tonight! I'd want to make a 4lb batch, though. Need to figure out a mold big enough...

 

[Steve85569]

http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=2909

Assuming you are using inches this works. The constant needs to change from .40 to .70 if you are metric.

 

[BrianV]

http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=2909

Assuming you are using inches this works. The constant needs to change from .40 to .70 if you are metric.

Thanks. I've read several variations of that formula. However, it's never 100% clear if that's the weight of the oils in the recipe (assuming full water) or whether that's the weight of the oils + water (ie, the weight you actually pour in the mode.

If the former, you would have to adjust based on the amount of water you are using. If the latter, you need to calculate your batch from the final weight with water backwards. What's the proper method?

Edit: My concern is that switching between 33 and 38% water in a recipe (for instance) will results in a change in the amount you pour into your mold. Maybe it's not enough to bother worrying about...

 

[Steve85569]

Weight of oil that will fit with all additives.
I know how you're feeling. What do I do if I get thick trace going and I'm out of room to put soap?!
Rest assured that unless you put lots of something extra into your soap batter that it will fit. Just so you don't go dumping 2 cups of oatmeal in and then hating me because it didn't all fit.:mrgreen:
This set of calcs is magic.

 

[Steve85569]

"Edit: My concern is that switching between 33 and 38% water in a recipe (for instance) will results in a change in the amount you pour into your mold. Maybe it's not enough to bother worrying about..."

Changing to a higher water content will speed up trace and set on the soap as well as encouraging gel. The change in volume of the batter will be relatively small when compared to oil.

I was going to go through a long explanation about water vs oil and water vs lye but I think I'll save that for someone with a much better chemistry background.

 

[BrianV]

Changing to a higher water content will speed up trace and set on the soap as well as encouraging gel. The change in volume of the batter will be relatively small when compared to oil.

Just to confirm - are you sure you meant that a higher content would speed up trace? I would have assumed the opposite, but also in this case assume I would probably be wrong

 

[lionprincess00]

Just to confirm - are you sure you meant that a higher content would speed up trace? I would have assumed the opposite, but also in this case assume I would probably be wrong

Low water slows trace tremendously IF you are CERTAIN the fragrance doesnt accelerate. Some that don't trace with high water do with low water, so you have to be sure. 40% lye at emulsion with the right fragrance can take literally hours sitting still before it reaches trace....with the right fragrance; )

 

[BrianV]

Low water slows trace tremendously IF you are CERTAIN the fragrance doesnt accelerate. Some that don't trace with high water do with low water, so you have to be sure. 40% lye at emulsion with the right fragrance can take literally hours sitting still before it reaches trace....with the right fragrance; )

Thanks for clarifying!

In other news, I just made a 4lb batch of the recipe from above:

50% Lard
20% Coconut oil
15% Pomace Oil
4.5% Olive Oil
10.5% Canola Oil

5% SF

Again, the Pomace Oil, Olive and Canola are contributed by the Saporito Oil above.

Let's see how it turns out!

 

[BrianV]

Unwrapped this morning after sitting in my slab mold overnight. Seemed to be fine.

However, when I split the slab into individual loafs, the center of the mold was still gelled. Note to future self - make sure the center of the slab is cool as well, perhaps use a probe thermometer.

 

[shunt2011]

Generally it can take 8-24 hours to unmold and cut for gelled soap. Ungelled soap can take up to 3 days. I wouldn't stick a probe into it. You should be able to tell by feel if it's warm.

 

[BrianV]

Generally it can take 8-24 hours to unmold and cut for gelled soap. Ungelled soap can take up to 3 days. I wouldn't stick a probe into it. You should be able to tell by feel if it's warm.

Yep, I should have waited longer perhaps. It was at the 12 hour mark, but I had left the mold wrapped in blankets, so it still felt fairly warm.

Next time, perhaps I will remove the blankets after the gel stage ends for a quicker cool and set.

I personally like to keep them covered for as long as possible as I've found it can help with ash issues. But, that's totally up to you. It's only cosmetic and can ususally be washed off.