Good suggestion! :grin:
No superfat
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girlishcharm2004
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I would just like to add that regardless of superfat used, it is ALWAYS a good idea to pH test them.
I didn't know how to test my scale for accuracy -- thanks, Hazel! I'm going to test it now!
I didn't know how to test my scale for accuracy -- thanks, Hazel! I'm going to test it now!
dagmar88
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Could you explain why?
I too would like an explanation as to why I need to PH test my soap. I've never done it. I zap test but that's it.
girlishcharm2004
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Well, okay, if you zap test it then that's something. I say that in regards to safety. When I was a beginner, I made a lot of soaps with zero super-fat, but I always tested the pH for safety. The woman who taught me how to make soap ALWAYS tested her soaps with pH test strips as they came out of the mold so I got into the habit, too. I read a comment from one woman who as a beginning soap maker said she washed her toddler with a lye heavy soap. I just couldn't believe that not only did she not even test it's safety, but also she didn't even test it on herself before washing a baby with it! For the zap test, I've also known beginners to not understand what that means, either. One woman said, "I left it on my tongue until I felt it burning, is that a zap?" But, a pH test gives a clear number if it's safe or not. I'm not saying that zap tests don't work, but in regards to a beginner who doesn't know what it is, a pH test seems to be the way to go. I guess I should have said soap should always be tested for lye heaviness before using?
For the record, I still consider myself a beginner, but only my first couple batches were zero super fat until I learned that 5% was the norm.
For the record, I still consider myself a beginner, but only my first couple batches were zero super fat until I learned that 5% was the norm.
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Thank you for all reply's, I have now cut it and got a zap from testing it, so in the bin it goes
Another stupid question, but with CP wouldn't you still get a zap at cutting, after 1 day? I understand that in CP the process lasts a lot longer and it's best to use right away.
Or am I wrong in thinking that?
girlishcharm2004
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No, not necessarily. I don't get a zap and my pH is fine once the soap has hardened enough to get it out of the mold. Some people believe that soap needs to cure for 4-6 weeks because of the pH of the soap. While the pH does reduce by 0.5 during it's cure time, it's not nearly a significant difference to hold off on using it. The reason soap is to cure for so long (and longer if more water is used!) is to allow the bar to harden further. Did I answer your question?
You certainly did! And there was I, using a glove and an old knife to cut my soap 24 hours after pouring so nothing (including my efficacious hands) gets damaged by lye. Well, we live and learn
girlishcharm2004
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Using gloves when cutting soap isn't a bad thing! Sometimes we make mistakes when making soap and leave pockets of lye or make a lye heavy soap.
I've had CP zap for three days after is was hard enough to unmold and cut.
AngelMomma
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You certainly did! And there was I, using a glove and an old knife to cut my soap 24 hours after pouring so nothing (including my efficacious hands) gets damaged by lye. Well, we live and learn
I still usually use gloves when handling the soap RIGHT after it comes out of the mold. Longer if it is a soap that I have prevented gel on. I seem to have sensitive skin on my hands though. Sensitive meaning I have a built in reader on if a soap is caustic or even cured out completely. My daughter can use a soap at 2 weeks and say "ITs GREAT Mom!" While I go and use it and 30 minutes later my skin feels just slightly tight and slightly dry. Which does not happen when they are done. So I just use the gloves. Using ph strips is quick and easy, I like that better than licking soap :lolno:
When I first started soaping I did not come here first. I went to the library. Those books and the recipes were CRUMMY!!! After coming here and reading many, many threads I realized that those recipes have virtually zero SF. So I shredded them for laundry soap. I HATE wasting, so that works. I always SF at least 5% and I add it in with the rest of the oils.
judymoody
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pH strips can be really unreliable. If you want to test your pH, I recommend a calibrated meter and consistent testing procedures.
As soap can never be pH neutral and still be soap, I prefer the zap test. The tongue is very sensitive.
What pH are you aiming for to ensure safety?
I did use pH strips on my first few batches because I wasn't sure what I was doing and I wasn't sure if I would know what "zap" would be like. (Of course, now I know! 
) I knew people said they were unreliable but all I wanted was a ballpark figure. I figured I had the strips so I might as well try them. I stopped testing once I got comfortable with CP. It was interesting to find out the alkalinity of the soap plus it helped me get over the "new to CP" nervousness.
I have to confess now I don't even test lotions. I just make them and use them.
) I knew people said they were unreliable but all I wanted was a ballpark figure. I figured I had the strips so I might as well try them. I stopped testing once I got comfortable with CP. It was interesting to find out the alkalinity of the soap plus it helped me get over the "new to CP" nervousness. I have to confess now I don't even test lotions. I just make them and use them.
roseb
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@ Hayley - The info below isn't directed at you. I just wanted to include some things I've learned which might be of interest to beginning soapmakers or people who are thinking of starting to make soap.
I agree with Dagmar. Not only do you have to allow for SAP averages, but it's important to consider the accuracy of the scales. The superfat/lye discount is a fudge factor to help prevent lye heaviness which might result from SAP averaging and scale inaccuracy. BTW, SAP is averaged to allow for differences in what country an oil is from, weather conditions (which will change from season to season /year to year) and manufacturing processes. It would be possible for an oil to actually need less NaOH than is used in a lye calculator. In this case, soap would be lye heavy even though it it isn’t shown as lye heavy according to the calculator. This is why saponification values are averaged to cover these differences.
I check my scales for accuracy before starting to weigh ingredients. I don't have calibration weights so I use 5 American quarters as the weight. The quarters weigh 28 grams or 1 ounce, Recently, I've noticed my scales showed the quarters as weighing .95 ounce/27 grams. I know that doesn't sound like much of a difference. But it does concern me since if I wasn't paying attention, it would throw off all of the weight for every ingredient. Who knows what problems I may have had if I didn't check every time I use the scale?
Another thing to consider is the quality of scales. Beginning soapmakers may not always purchase a quality model because of the expense. I started soapmaking with an inexpensive model I had found in a local store. I don't remember what I paid for it but I know it wasn't very much. I didn't want to pay out too much since I didn't know if I would like making soap. It was good enough to get me started but I know it wasn't 100% accurate.
I had found out through experimenting that 5% SF wasn't enough for my skin because it didn't allow enough free oils to remain on my skin. I don't know about any free oils going down the drain but I can say I can tell that oils do remain on my skin after rinsing off. I generally use 7% to 8% SF depending on the recipe but I have very dry skin and not everyone would have this problem. I use 5% SF for soap I make for my BIL and nephews. It also depends on what oils are in a recipe. I do have a recipe which I use 5% SF and it's just fine for my skin. I was quite surprised to find out how nice it was when I tested it. One of my sisters tested it and said it was better than the "conditioning" bar I had formulated for her. Plus, she liked that it was more bubbly. She also has dry, sensitive skin and had normally preferred soap with a higher SF. Learn something new every day.
In conclusion, it is highly recommended people use at least a 5% superfat (lye discount) to compensate for potential errors, inaccuracy of scales and SAP averages.
Remember- safety first! I hope some people find my ramblings helpful. :grin:
Get tip about the scale! No ramble, just a lot of helpful information. One thing I didn't want to scrimp on was the scale, but it always bothered me that I didn't know how to check the calibration. You are a fount of valuable information!
roseb
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Another great tip! Boy, I'm sure glad I decided to read this thread!
squyars
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How does that work? If you have a 2 lb batch, and are adding say 1 oz of FO, do you just put the FO in the mold, then pour your traced soap on top? Does the FO work it's way up and into the soap? Sorry if this sounds like a dumb question, but I was thinking the other day how easy it would be if I could do just that.
lpstephy85
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I'm guessing what Dagmar is saying is she measures her FO in whatever she uses and then sets the container inside the mold. That way if she mixes her lye/oils/colors/additives and starts to pour in her mold but forgot the FO, she will see it and stop before pouring and add. I doubt it gets that far but I am guessing that is what she meant. I don't think pouring the FO in the mold and then pouring the batter on top would be a good idea as it probably won't incorporate very well.
squyars
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OK. That makes more sense. Thanks
Thanks but I learned most of it here. There are some great tips posted by members and I think it's wonderful how generous people are about sharing. Of course, sometimes the problem is finding the answer when you have a specific question since there is so much information.
However, I do have a tendency to ramble.
girlishcharm2004
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You are absolutely correct, pH test strips can be unreliable. I believe I read they can be 1 or 2 off the mark. A calibrated meter is the most accurate way that I've read about so far, too.
I admittedly do both -- just to make sure!
I believe 8-10 is generally considered safe (and still soapy for that matter). :smile:
I think I saw someone else say that the books that they learned from at the library had terrible recipes! That's so true! I picked some up and they were absolutely worthless.
