No Palm Formula Feedback

[Blaine]

Hello- I need to make a palm free formula for an important event. I have been making soap for several years, but never without palm. I am lost! Feedback on this formula would be so helpful. Thanks for your time.

Olive oil 40%
Coconut oil 76 25%
Coconut Frac 10%
coco butter 7.5%
shea butter 2.5%
almond oil 10%
castor 5%

 

[cmzaha]

I would take out the FCO and cut the CO to no higher than 20%, up the Shea to 10% and up the Coco Butter 5%. You really do not want 35% CO in soap and from what I have read it makes an even more stripping soap than CO, which I do not personally know since I only use FCO in lotions and balms.

If you can use lard it is a good replacement for palm. I personally like 45/20% tallow/lard with CO at 10-17%.

 

[JuliaNegusuk]

Just to be annoying, I have a palm free recipe which has 35% coconut oil, and most people seem to like it. I know of another another soap maker's award winning recipe which had 45% coconut oil.

The biggest problem I found when developing my recipe was maintaining a good level of bubbliness, and that I found difficult to achieve without reasonably high levels of coconut oil. I liked sweet almond oil in my test recipes, which did seem to improve the bubbles but it is pricey and I didn't want a soap that people with nut allergies couldn't use. The other problem when not using palm is achieving a soap that stays hard throughout use. Though this may just be an obsession of mine.

For what its worth, my no palm vegie soap recipe is 50% olive oil, 35% coconut oil, and 5% each shea butter, cocoa butter and castor oil with 1% sugar added to improve bubbles (standard 5% superfat). It seems to work well enough providing reasonable bubbliness and being fairly long lasting and hardish untill fairly small. I don't find it drying but then I don't have particularly sensitive skin.

If I did it again I might not bother with the sugar and try replacing the castor oil with sweet almond oil (tough on nut allergies!) I have never been convinced about castor oil helping bubbles, though I know some people swear by it. I did do some tests and nobody I asked noticed the difference when it wasn't included. I didn't notice the difference either even when I knew the recipes were different.

 

[IrishLass]

I make an all-veggie no-palm soap, too. Mine is very similar to Julia's, containing 50% OO, only mine contains 27% coconut oil instead of 35%, and my castor and butter amounts are slightly different.

If your skins are fine with higher CO amounts, there's no need to lower them. If it were mine, I would tweak your recipe to something more like this, but this is just based on my own likes:

48% OO
27% CO
10% almond oil
5% castor
5% cocoa butter
5% shea butter

Superfatted @ 5%
1 tbsp. sugar ppo


IrishLass

 

[Blaine]

Thank you all so much for your thoughtful feedback! I was surprised at how difficult it was to think through not using palm (or animal fat)! Very thankful.

Just to be annoying, I have a palm free recipe which has 35% coconut oil, and most people seem to like it. I know of another another soap maker's award winning recipe which had 45% coconut oil.

The biggest problem I found when developing my recipe was maintaining a good level of bubbliness, and that I found difficult to achieve without reasonably high levels of coconut oil. I liked sweet almond oil in my test recipes, which did seem to improve the bubbles but it is pricey and I didn't want a soap that people with nut allergies couldn't use. The other problem when not using palm is achieving a soap that stays hard throughout use. Though this may just be an obsession of mine.

For what its worth, my no palm vegie soap recipe is 50% olive oil, 35% coconut oil, and 5% each shea butter, cocoa butter and castor oil with 1% sugar added to improve bubbles (standard 5% superfat). It seems to work well enough providing reasonable bubbliness and being fairly long lasting and hardish untill fairly small. I don't find it drying but then I don't have particularly sensitive skin.

If I did it again I might not bother with the sugar and try replacing the castor oil with sweet almond oil (tough on nut allergies!) I have never been convinced about castor oil helping bubbles, though I know some people swear by it. I did do some tests and nobody I asked noticed the difference when it wasn't included. I didn't notice the difference either even when I knew the recipes were different.

1. -- Thanks for the feedback. Interestingly, almonds are considered tree nuts, so a bit different from a penut/legume- so you may be avoiding it for no reason. http://www.aaaai.org/ask-the-expert/anaphylaxis-topical-almond-oil

 

[cmzaha]

Almonds are not a tree nut they are actually a seed in a drupe, which is related to peaches, plums etc. People commonly call them a nut

 

[IrishLass]

Almonds are not a tree nut they are actually a seed in a drupe, which is related to peaches, plums etc. People commonly call them a nut

Well shoot, that sure puts a whole different spin on the old Almond Joy/Mounds jingle. I don't know about y'all, but, "Sometimes you feel like a seed, sometimes you don't", just doesn't have the same fun ring to it as, "Sometimes you feel like a nut, sometimes you don't".




IrishLass

 

[cmzaha]

Well shoot, that sure puts a whole different spin on the old Almond Joy/Mounds jingle. I don't know about y'all, but, "Sometimes you feel like a seed, sometimes you don't", just doesn't have the same fun ring to it as, "Sometimes you feel like a nut, sometimes you don't".




IrishLass

yes it does

 

[Blaine]

Almonds are not a tree nut they are actually a seed in a drupe, which is related to peaches, plums etc. People commonly call them a nut

Yes- The "allergy" community groups them as a tree nut- obviously a much broader category. If you are allergic to one under this broad category that includes walnuts, almonds, hazelnuts, cashews, pistachios and Brazil nuts you are more likely to have a response to the rest- as they share some sort of protein (I think)

 

[cmzaha]

No, they do not share the same protein, they contain a different protein and they are the most un-likely to cause allergic problems, but of course they can.

 

[jules92207]

I would take out the FCO and cut the CO to no higher than 20%, up the Shea to 10% and up the Coco Butter 5%. You really do not want 35% CO in soap and from what I have read it makes an even more stripping soap than CO, which I do not personally know since I only use FCO in lotions and balms.

If you can use lard it is a good replacement for palm. I personally like 45/20% tallow/lard with CO at 10-17%.

I’m in agreement here - I know lots of people who can handle that much CO but I am not one of them. I only go over 20% CO when it’s a salt bar or coconut bar with an extra high super fat. I like cmzaha’s suggestion, that would work for me.

 

[MKLonestar]

No, they do not share the same protein, they contain a different protein and they are the most un-likely to cause allergic problems, but of course they can.

My sister is severely allergic to almonds and anything that contains almonds, however, she is able to eat peanuts, walnuts, pistachios, etc. Almonds contain something in their oil that causes the allergic reaction (this is what her doctor told her) and many people have this allergy, so it is clumped into the "tree nut" category for allergies on packaging to save room apparently. My sister has to watch everything she eats to make sure it wasn't manufactured in a facility that uses almonds.

Knowing about almond allergies and seeing the reaction my sister has to them (anaphylactic- throat closes and can not breathe) I stay away from using almond oil in any of my products.

 

[cmzaha]

My sister is severely allergic to almonds and anything that contains almonds, however, she is able to eat peanuts, walnuts, pistachios, etc. Almonds contain something in their oil that causes the allergic reaction (this is what her doctor told her) and many people have this allergy, so it is clumped into the "tree nut" category for allergies on packaging to save room apparently. My sister has to watch everything she eats to make sure it wasn't manufactured in a facility that uses almonds.

Knowing about almond allergies and seeing the reaction my sister has to them (anaphylactic- throat closes and can not breathe) I stay away from using almond oil in any of my products.

I never said someone could not be allergic to almonds, of course it can happen, I simply stated it is not a true nut, but a drupe and does not contain the same protein as peanuts. You can also be allergic to something topically but not if eaten. There is nothing on this earth, including water, that someone is not allergic to, key to allergies is knowing your potential allergens and sometimes we find out the hard way. With all my allergies I was never allergic to penicillin but after taking one pill and going to bed one night I woke up with a severe reaction. I was in the throes of anaphylactic shock in the 10 min it took me to get to the hospital.

 

[MKLonestar]

I never said someone could not be allergic to almonds, of course it can happen, I simply stated it is not a true nut, but a drupe and does not contain the same protein as peanuts. You can also be allergic to something topically but not if eaten. There is nothing on this earth, including water, that someone is not allergic to, key to allergies is knowing your potential allergens and sometimes we find out the hard way. With all my allergies I was never allergic to penicillin but after taking one pill and going to bed one night I woke up with a severe reaction. I was in the throes of anaphylactic shock in the 10 min it took me to get to the hospital.

I know you didn't say no one could be allergic to almonds. And YES, they are a drupe, not a true tree nut, yet they get lumped into the tree nut category. Yes, everyone can be allergic to something or if overused become allergic to it. Penicillin use to be the "go to" antibiotic that I was prescribed most, but now I have a severe allergy to it. Seems with each antibiotic I take, if I use it more than 3x in one year, I develop an allergy to it and a new one has to be found. Now, I try to only take them if homeopathic remedies do not work.