Next effort: Olive Oil soap has 'growth lines'

[dxw]

I had to recalculate my quantities on the fly ... not having enough NaOH left for the batch size I'd planned. Ooooops, prior planning and all that.

Anyways my next noob-soapmaking effort is 100% olive oil CP soap - 900g OO, 116g NaOH, 300g H2O, with approx' 20ml of lavender EO. It took ages (compared to my previous few) to trace, and I stopped at a light-medium trace so I could easily pour it into my mould.
I have just removed it from the mould and cut it. The block had some brownish horizontal lines on the side - hence my 'growth lines' comment - and I am wondering what caused them.
The cut bars have a darker core than edges, and I assume that is just that the edges have cured (or whatever is happening) a little more due to either temperature or air exposure.

Learnings:
- Light trace is much easier to put into mould;
- I can save the lining paper that I cut for my mould and use it again (Do'0h!);
- ?Olive oil, solo, is slow to trace.

Questions:
- What causes the growth lines? Is it an artefact of imperfect mixing, perhaps residual unsaponified oil, or is it likely to be something else?

 

[shunt2011]

It’s hard to tell but it may be partial gel. It didn’t heat all the way through. 100% OO takes a long time to trace. Can usually do a larger lye discount with it. As long as there’s no zap it should be okay. Now just a good long cure.

 

[SaltedFig]

You've got a lot of water for an olive soap (at just under 28% lye concentration), so I'm not surprised it took you a while to get trace!

The lavender is harder to mix into an olive soap (takes a bit of blending) as well.

So I'm guessing that the high amount of water, and pouring at light trace, has allowed everything to move around and group up as it pleases, before it fully set up as soap. Changing your lye concentration up to around 33% to 37% will take care of most of what you are seeing (and give you a quicker trace as well).

Still, your soap is going to end up just fine ... eventually.

Edited to agree - yes, also looks like a bit of partial gel

 

[dxw]

Thanks.

I used the BrambleBerry lye calculator for 1000g of OO, and then recalculated out in the shed once I found I only had 90% of the necessary NaOH left. The original recipe that I jotted down was 1000g OO, 130g NaOH, and 330g H2O - also 28%.
I guess I should use another calculator with lye concentration options.

Is 'gel' the initial setting phase that occurs in the mould, and then curing is the gradual loss of water over longer time? Is partial gel a problem? Is there anything I should do ... other than the plan, mentioned, to leave it for a long time now?

I spoon-mixed the scent, not with the stick mixer, so that may be a factor.

 

[DeeAnna]

The BB calc is set up to be a no-hassle, low stress calc for beginners, but simplification comes at a cost. If you want more control of the settings, then yeah, you need to try a new calc. A lot of people really like Soapee.com

For a 100% olive oil soap or similar high oleic recipe, I'd use anywhere from 33% to 40% lye concentration.

"...Is 'gel' the initial setting phase that occurs in the mould, and then curing is the gradual loss of water over longer time?..."

Yes and yes -- you're spot on correct about gel and cure.

"...Is partial gel a problem?..."

Partial gel is only a cosmetic problem. Some people don't mind, others do. It happens when the center part of the soap gets warm enough to gel and that changes its color slightly. The outer edges stay a bit cooler so they don't gel.

"...Is there anything I should do ... other than the plan, mentioned, to leave it for a long time now?..."

Oh, you sound so plaintive! But the answer is what you think it is -- sigh and wait.

 

[dxw]

Oh, you sound so plaintive! But the answer is what you think it is -- sigh and wait.

Ahhhh, sorry, not really. I am quite enjoying their curing but do look-in on them way too often. "A watched soap never cures"

I now have five CP soap batches curing in the shed. They are all doing different things. The first (olive and coconut oils) is firm but scentless and has grown some white splotches on the surface. The second (Earl Grey Tea) is behaving beautifully, despite the very irregular moulding / cutting applied. The third (Rebatch of first) I burned so as it cures it's looking increasingly charred. The fourth is doing curious things where one component of a swirl is drying out and contracting faster than the other, so I am getting a texturized marbling. This one is my fifth CP effort and has its own little foibles and surprises for me.

 

[Happy2018]

Woo, how big is that mold? How many pounds go into that mold?

 

[dxw]

I threw the mould together from scrap timber, after some advice elsewhere in this forum.



It's 6cm wide x 9cm deep x 40cm long, with some flexibility because the faces are not fixed. That batch weighed in at around 1300g, which is a little under 3lb, and there was probably 20% 'headspace' remaining before I reached the edges.

So I guess it'd take around 3.5lb if I wanted.

 

[Happy2018]

Thank you for sharing, that is awesome!

 

[penelopejane]

You could add a divider to the mold and make 1/2 batches at least till you perfect your method.

Is your shed a constant temperature or does it fluctuate with the weather? If the latter you might have to bring it inside to a cool, constant temperature room to avoid some of the strange curing phenomena you are getting.

You can’t fix this batch but for future batches to avoid partial gel soap a little warmer (105* or so) wrap the soap when you’ve poured it into the mold and put a blanket over it and leave it for 24 hours untouched. This should help it gel.

With your size mold I figure it won’t fit in the oven.

 

[shunt2011]

I agree with penelopejane. I wouldn't recommend making quite so large a batch as a beginner. Especially when something goes wrong, it can get quite costly. Storing in a shed probably isn't the best idea. Not sure where you live but constant fluctuations in heat/cold/humidity/dry will affect cure and may cause other issues such as DOS if it's not a climate controlled room.

 

[dxw]

Thanks, both.

Yeah, shed is controlled-by-climate rather than climate-controlled. I am kinda stuck with it though. It provides me with good work/storage space out from under everyone else's feet, and nobody complains about my music in the shed. I've also just setup a drying rack area out there - a repurposed old Ikea bookshelf set. I do have to go inside for oven/stovetop/microwave work and washing-up, but having this dedicated work area is great. I'll stick with that for the time being. Our climate is pretty stable on the world-scale, and we're moving slowly away from Summer now.

Batch / mould size comment also appreciated. I can halve that mould size by simply bringing in the end pieces. 1 litre of oils seemed a convenient batch size to work with, such nice round numbers and easy calculations. 500ml is not that much harder math I guess

Maybe my white blotches are cousins to the DOS you mention.

Thanks all. Things that are such second-nature to many of you are new and exciting learning experiences for others, thank you for sharing and helping lessen our learn-by-mistakes.

 

[SaltedFig]

500 grams of oils is a really nice amount to do test batches with ... the numbers are still easy, you can get a stick blender fully immersed into the batter in most containers, and if you make a soap you REALLY like, you'll have enough bars left to keep you going until you can remake and cure a new batch

Can you post photo's of the white blotches? It might be as simple as soda ash ... a photo will give everyone a chance to help you work it out.

 

[dxw]

Can you post photo's of the white blotches? It might be as simple as soda ash ... a photo will give everyone a chance to help you work it out.

Thanks. Here's a photo of two blocks. Some of the white blotches appear to have tiny bubbles / inclusions at their centre, but in some others I can see no such object (perhaps it is a little deeper in the soap matrix). They are visible on one large face for each block but not (?yet) the other large face, and they're visible on some of the side/base faces.
The soap is 70% olive oil and 30% coconut oil, around 3% superfatted. I used rosewater to try and scent, and that did not work. These are to the blocks I kept to observe, after I used the remainder as an exercise in rebatching / hand-milling. It's 4.5 weeks out of the mould now.
I am not entirely sure what the little black specks are ... either olive oil contaminants or burn debris from the base of a vessel I used.

 

[SaltedFig]

Ah! High olive will do that. As it cures, the entire block will turn that white colour. Perfectly ordinary

 

[dxw]

I like that answer. Thanks.

 

[SaltedFig]

Welcome.

The black flecks are most likely just what you suspect - burnt bits. Take action if you notice it getting funky, but otherwise let it cure