Newbie soap troubleshooting.

[SOR Sam]

Hello, I am a novice soap maker with just a few batches under my belt And am new to this forum. I am making Castille soap and made my first batch of HP soap earlier this week. My problem is the texture of the bars. They seem to have lots of divots and holes, as shown in the photo. Is this because I got too much air in the mix when getting to trace? Did I over-do the trace? Or is this normal for HP soap? Also, I had thought the top would settle but it didn’t. Can you use a press board in the top of the mold to smooth it out? My CP Castile turned out great so not sure if this is just an HP thing or a novice thing.

thanks,

Sam

 

[Obsidian]

Its kinda of a HP thing. There are things that can help the HP stay more fluid so it won't have the holes. I'm not the one to advise though, I hate making HP.

If your CP turned out the way you like, why not just make it?
Unless you like the rustic look of HP, there is no real advange to it over CP.

 

[SOR Sam]

Thanks for the response. Mostly it is because I am impatient and wanted to try my soap sooner than the 4-6 week cure. And just experimenting with different techniques.

 

[Obsidian]

Hate to be the bearer of bad news but HP needs to cure just as long as CP. All HP does is speed up the saponification by a few hours, cure takes time as its a chemical change that happens in the soap.
Also, castile really needs a long cure. Most people recommend 6 months to a year.

Can you get other oils? We can help you put together a more balanced recipe that will cure in 4-6 weeks.

 

[SOR Sam]

Hate to be the bearer of bad news but HP needs to cure just as long as CP. All HP does is speed up the saponification by a few hours, cure takes time as its a chemical change that happens in the soap.
Also, castile really needs a long cure. Most people recommend 6 months to a year.

Can you get other oils? We can help you put together a more balanced recipe that will cure in 4-6 weeks.

Oh, that’s not what I had read. What is the reason for the longer cure of castille soap? What happens if you use it earlier?

 

[Obsidian]

Yeah, the myth about HP being ready to use immediately is a pervasive one. True it is safe to use immediately but it won't be as good a soap.

Castile is a odd soap. It produces little lather and is quite slimy. A long cure helps it lather better and become milder. Some say it also helps reduce the slime but thats not true in my experience.
Its perfectly ok to use after a short cure, its just better with a longer one.

 

[SOR Sam]

Yeah, the myth about HP being ready to use immediately is a pervasive one. True it is safe to use immediately but it won't be as good a soap.

Castile is a odd soap. It produces little lather and is quite slimy. A long cure helps it lather better and become milder. Some say it also helps reduce the slime but thats not true in my experience.
Its perfectly ok to use after a short cure, its just better with a longer one.

Got it, thanks. I am looking for pure castille soap I think. I am an olive oil producer and am looking for something to do with my oil when it expires. I have 50 gallons to experiment with...

Hate to be the bearer of bad news but HP needs to cure just as long as CP. All HP does is speed up the saponification by a few hours, cure takes time as its a chemical change that happens in the soap.
Also, castile really needs a long cure. Most people recommend 6 months to a year.

Can you get other oils? We can help you put together a more balanced recipe that will cure in 4-6 weeks.

I made up 1 recipe that was 70% EVOO, 22.5% coconut oil, and 7.5% Shea butter. 6% superfat. Curious to see how it comes out. Not sure I can call it castille at 70% EVOO.

 

[Arimara]

You have what is called a Bastile. It's nothing to worry about. Your soap is fine, by the way. All you needed to do was bang your soap mold on the ground or something the same as you would bang a cake on the table before baking. That would have leveled it more.

 

[SOR Sam]

You have what is called a Bastile. It's nothing to worry about. Your soap is fine, by the way. All you needed to do was bang your soap mold on the ground or something the same as you would bang a cake on the table before baking. That would have leveled it more.

Can you press the top of soap? Like put an insert inside the mold top with a weight on it? Maybe for 3-4 hours?

 

[Arimara]

That wouldn't really help. My suggestion was for when you poured you soap into the mold in the first place, while everything is nice and hot. To keep you batter even more fluid, you would have needed sodium lactate and/or to place cling wrap over whatever you are using to make your HP soap. Then once your soap was done and zap-free, easier pour.

 

[SOR Sam]

That wouldn't really help. My suggestion was for when you poured you soap into the mold in the first place, while everything is nice and hot. To keep you batter even more fluid, you would have needed sodium lactate and/or to place cling wrap over whatever you are using to make your HP soap. Then once your soap was done and zap-free, easier pour.

Thanks, I will try that

Can you call it castille at 70% EVOO?

You all rock, by the way. Very helpful community.

sam

 

[shunt2011]

Welcome! No it’s not Castile unless it is 100% OO technically. Some do but it’s being dishonest.

 

[DeeAnna]

Legally, any soap made with all vegetable oils can be called a castile in the commercial market. Read the labels on Kirk's coco-castile or Dr Bronner's castile soap. Also see ANNUAL REPORT OF THE FEDERAL TRADE COMMISSION FOR THE FISCAL YEAR ENDED JUNE 30, 1933. Pages 100-103. I realize this info is based on a US court case, but you can find this use of the word "castile" to mean an all veg oil soap in other countries as well.

From a soap maker's point of view, however, a castile means a soap made with 100% olive oil. That's also the traditional definition of castile, although to be even more persnickety, it should be soap from the Castile region of Spain. It's probably best for your soap making credibility to stick to this narrow definition of castile when talking to other soap makers.

So .... depends on who you want to please. If soap makers, then, no, a 70% OO soap is not and never will be a castile. If you're talking to the general consumer, as long as the other 30% is vegetable fat, then you can legally call it what you will.

I don't know of anyone who talks about "bastille" soap outside the soap making world, however. I suppose most soap makers would label their 70% OO, 30% coconut soap as a vegan or vegetarian soap.

 

[Arimara]

Legally, any soap made with all vegetable oils can be called a castile in the commercial market. Read the labels on Kirk's coco-castile or Dr Bronner's castle soap. Also see ANNUAL REPORT OF THE FEDERAL TRADE COMMISSION FOR THE FISCAL YEAR ENDED JUNE 30, 1933. Pages 100-103. I realize this info is based on a US court case, but you can find this use of the word "castile" to mean an all veg oil soap in other countries as well.

From a soap maker's point of view, however, a castile means a soap made with 100% olive oil. That's also the traditional definition of castile, although to be even more persnickety, it should be soap from the Castile region of Spain. It's probably best for your soap making credibility to stick to this narrow definition of castile when talking to other soap makers.

So .... depends on who you want to please. If soap makers, then, no, a 70% OO soap is not and never will be a castile. If you're talking to the general consumer, as long as the other 30% is vegetable fat, then you can legally call it what you will.

I don't know of anyone who talks about "bastille" soap outside the soap making world, however. I suppose most soap makers would label their 70% OO, 30% coconut soap as a vegan or vegetarian soap.

But it's so much fun to say Bastile. Probably because we know what it means.

 

[SoapSisters]

I love high olive oil soap, but not 100% OO soap. I enjoy it much more with, say, 10% coconut oil and 5% castor. This way you would still be using your olive oil but also add some nice lather to your soap. You may want to do a search here for Zany's Castile soap. Her recipe calls for "faux seawater" that cuts some of the OO sliminess.

 

[Nona'sFarm]

I make a high olive oil goat milk and honey soap, that I really like. It's 70% olive and I think 15% coconut and 15% palm. I don't have my notebook close by. I make it in individual silicone mold cavities and CPOP. I still have to wait several days to remove the soap from the mold. I like a 12 week cure for it. So just another possibility.

 

[AliOop]

I make a high olive oil goat milk and honey soap, that I really like. It's 70% olive and I think 15% coconut and 15% palm. I don't have my notebook close by. I make it in individual silicone mold cavities and CPOP. I still have to wait several days to remove the soap from the mold. I like a 12 week cure for it. So just another possibility.

Yes, and if the OP can obtain fresh goat milk from a local farm, that could further enhance the "locavore" marketing angle. And I agree that Zany's no-slime recipe + goat milk makes a MUCH nicer castile/bastile.