Newbie questions re: recipe

[Siobhan]

It's not a bet I'd be willing to take given my experience with Gardenia FOs. EO will be more expensive and not any more likely to behave in CP. Every single Gardenia FO I've tried in CP either seized or riced like crazy so for the money I'd probably pass.

I plan on doing HP. Do you think it'll go better with HP?

 

[DeeAnna]

The seller is using a lot of "weasel words" about this fragrance. On one hand they say "...largely synthetically produced..." and on the other hand they say "...do not confuse this oil with a "Fragrance oil" which is a synthetic oil..." And I think the capper is this little gem: "...This oil has constituents added or deleted by manufacturer..."

Does this really sound like an essential oil to you? Doesn't to me.

 

[Susie]

Buy your oils from reputable soaping suppliers. It will pay you in the end.

 

[Siobhan]

The seller is using a lot of "weasel words" about this fragrance. On one hand they say "...largely synthetically produced..." and on the other hand they say "...do not confuse this oil with a "Fragrance oil" which is a synthetic oil..." And I think the capper is this little gem: "...This oil has constituents added or deleted by manufacturer..."

Does this really sound like an essential oil to you? Doesn't to me.

It certainly sent red flags to me, particularly since no other vendor was selling it. I figured I would ask to make sure I'm not missing some unknown extraction process.

So here's the dilemma I face. Background, my goal is to make soap inspired by characters in my new book. One character is associated with lavender and peppermint. The other character is associated with gardenia and vanilla.

However, now I realize that even a gardenia perfume would be difficult to procure. So, I have to find another floral scent to associate with this character. I was thinking Jasmine--but wowzers! That's expensive too.

 

[earlene]

The other character is associated with gardenia and vanilla.

However, now I realize that even a gardenia perfume would be difficult to procure. So, I have to find another floral scent to associate with this character. I was thinking Jasmine--but wowzers! That's expensive too.

Do I understand you to say you may change the floral scent in your book? If so, choose one that is easier to come by. Lily of the Valley FO by Nature's Garden is not overly expensive and a lovely scent. I don't know how it would pair with vanilla, but I have used and enjoyed it on its own. That is if you are open to using FOs.

If it is only EOs you want to use and you want to evaluate an EO in person, might I suggest you go into a brick and mortar store and do some sniff testing to get an idea of which EOs might be of interest. One place where this works very well is The Vitamin Shoppe, where you can do sniff tests and they keep fresh coffee beans to sniff between sniffing scents to 'clear the nasal palette'. There may be other stores near where you live that provide a similar sniff-testing opportunity. It just the only one near where I live where I have found I can do that. I think some Whole Foods Stores also let you sniff, but I don't recall ever seeing the coffee beans to clear the nasal palette. But you could carry a small container of coffee beans with you.

I suggest this because if you find something you like, you would actually get an idea of cost. It may actually cost more at one of these stores than you if you order from Nature's Garden or Bramble Berry, etc. But you would be able to see the trend of higher and lower costs of what they have in stock and get a better idea if something goes well with vanilla, since vanilla seems to be part of what you want as well. Although I can't imagine a floral scent that would not go well with vanilla.

 

[The Efficacious Gentleman]

What vanilla are you looking to use? Many aren't what they are advertised to be

 

[DeeAnna]

If you don't want a dark soap, a vanilla fragrance is not a good choice -- it discolors to varying shades of brown. Also you'll have to use vanilla absolute if you want to stick to a "natural" fragrance. There's no vanilla essential oil, and vanilla extract doesn't work well in soap.

I get the feeling you are wanting to use only essential oils or other "natural" scents in these soaps. As you are finding, essential oils for some exotic fragrances are horribly expensive, come from endangered species (sandalwood), don't really smell like the fragrance from the actual living flower, or simply don't exist. Many soapers who start out this way eventually convert to using fragrance oils to get the range of scents they want at a reasonable price.

 

[Siobhan]

Do I understand you to say you may change the floral scent in your book? If so, choose one that is easier to come by. Lily of the Valley FO by Nature's Garden is not overly expensive and a lovely scent. I don't know how it would pair with vanilla, but I have used and enjoyed it on its own. That is if you are open to using FOs.

If it is only EOs you want to use and you want to evaluate an EO in person, might I suggest you go into a brick and mortar store and do some sniff testing to get an idea of which EOs might be of interest. One place where this works very well is The Vitamin Shoppe, where you can do sniff tests and they keep fresh coffee beans to sniff between sniffing scents to 'clear the nasal palette'. There may be other stores near where you live that provide a similar sniff-testing opportunity. It just the only one near where I live where I have found I can do that. I think some Whole Foods Stores also let you sniff, but I don't recall ever seeing the coffee beans to clear the nasal palette. But you could carry a small container of coffee beans with you.

I suggest this because if you find something you like, you would actually get an idea of cost. It may actually cost more at one of these stores than you if you order from Nature's Garden or Bramble Berry, etc. But you would be able to see the trend of higher and lower costs of what they have in stock and get a better idea if something goes well with vanilla, since vanilla seems to be part of what you want as well. Although I can't imagine a floral scent that would not go well with vanilla.

Yes. I am going to change the scent of my character. Back story: I am doing a reader/author event in October. My goal is to make soaps inspired by the two main characters. One is a shy, calming type (peppermint/lavender) and the other is a spunky, sultry flirt (gardenia/vanilla). These will be free soaps, primarily to serve as scents to complement the reading experience. Furthermore, since the scent seems to be hard to find, I'm going to make a guess that it's also hard to find in a perfume (at least in 1915).

What vanilla are you looking to use? Many aren't what they are advertised to be

I haven't purchased the vanilla, yet. I will be going to a few natural food stores that sell essential oils and spices. I'll find what is available.

If you don't want a dark soap, a vanilla fragrance is not a good choice -- it discolors to varying shades of brown. Also you'll have to use vanilla absolute if you want to stick to a "natural" fragrance. There's no vanilla essential oil, and vanilla extract doesn't work well in soap.

I get the feeling you are wanting to use only essential oils or other "natural" scents in these soaps. As you are finding, essential oils for some exotic fragrances are horribly expensive, come from endangered species (sandalwood), don't really smell like the fragrance from the actual living flower, or simply don't exist. Many soapers who start out this way eventually convert to using fragrance oils to get the range of scents they want at a reasonable price.

Yes. For these batches, I am hoping to stick with natural scents. In the future, I plan on playing with fragrances, but since these first batches are part of a marketing plan, I'd like to keep it natural.

 

[mx5inpenn]

Yes. For these batches, I am hoping to stick with natural scents. In the future, I plan on playing with fragrances, but since these first batches are part of a marketing plan, I'd like to keep it natural.

I started out not wanting to use anything "unnatural" as well, but really wanted vanilla scented soap. Since I couldn't get that without using fragrance oils, when I decided to try them, a vanilla was the first one I used. If you change your mind, I highly recommend Nature's Garden Vanilla Bean.

 

[SunWolf]

<snip> Back story: I am doing a reader/author event in October. <snip>.

You are just about out of time for an October event, you need 4 to 6 weeks for your soap to cure before being ready.

 

[Siobhan]

I started out not wanting to use anything "unnatural" as well, but really wanted vanilla scented soap. Since I couldn't get that without using fragrance oils, when I decided to try them, a vanilla was the first one I used. If you change your mind, I highly recommend Nature's Garden Vanilla Bean.

I drove up to Zenith Supplies in Seattle. They sell soap, perfume, and lotion making supplies. They have a generous supply of fragrance and essential oils. And, they had a jar of coffee grounds!

I smelled the jasmine absolute, rose absolute, and other essential oils. I then smelled rose, lilac, gardenia, and jasmine fragrance oils. To my surprise, I really liked the gardenia scent! So I purchased it. I figured that when I become more proficient with soap-making, then I'll consider sinking funds into these rare essential oils. Since I will be giving these soap bars away during the reader event, I think I better stick with what I can get my hands on now.

I also purchased cinnamon (cassia) and clove essential oils which I hope to blend with vanilla. I haven't purchased the vanilla yet. I didn't like the vanilla at the store, but there is a natural market in my town and I'll get the vanilla there.

You are just about out of time for an October event, you need 4 to 6 weeks for your soap to cure before being ready.

I am making hot process soap. I know there are different camps on needing to cure HP soap, but my goal is to make my batches next Saturday. That will still give me about three weeks to cure the soap.

 

[Susie]

HP needs just as much time, if not more, to cure as CP. You may want to look into some melt and pour bases. You can scent and color, and these will be good to go in 3 weeks.

 

[Siobhan]

These may be my last questions until after I make my first batch.

1. Coloring or no coloring?

2. I bought more coconut oil but it doesn't say if 76 or 96 degrees. I am assuming I will need to find out (although it is probably 60ish my home and it looks really soft). How can I?

 

[artemis]

These may be my last questions until after I make my first batch.

1. Coloring or no coloring?

My vote for a first batch would be no color, no fragrance, and a small batch. Just get used to the process. Then, you can add a new facet with the next batch.

 

[Arimara]

These may be my last questions until after I make my first batch.

1. Coloring or no coloring? You don't really need it at this stage. If you want a soap uniformed in color, you generally need between .5 to 2 tsps of a colrant, depending on the colorant. But that can go into a whole other topic in and of itself. Swirls and the like is more advanced and you're already considering using a fragrance, which may or may not complicate things. I suggest you make your HP batch unscented first so that you learn the process. After you get a feel, at the fragrance.

2. I bought more coconut oil but it doesn't say if 76 or 96 degrees. I am assuming I will need to find out (although it is probably 60ish my home and it looks really soft). How can I? You would have to heat the oil up and constantly check it's temperature. Generally though, it makes little difference unless you but liquid (fractionated) coconut oil soap. Generally, most brands sell 76 coconut oil.

Azul/ blue.

 

[cmzaha]

Do I understand you to say you may change the floral scent in your book? If so, choose one that is easier to come by. Lily of the Valley FO by Nature's Garden is not overly expensive and a lovely scent. I don't know how it would pair with vanilla, but I have used and enjoyed it on its own. That is if you are open to using FOs.

If it is only EOs you want to use and you want to evaluate an EO in person, might I suggest you go into a brick and mortar store and do some sniff testing to get an idea of which EOs might be of interest. One place where this works very well is The Vitamin Shoppe, where you can do sniff tests and they keep fresh coffee beans to sniff between sniffing scents to 'clear the nasal palette'. There may be other stores near where you live that provide a similar sniff-testing opportunity. It just the only one near where I live where I have found I can do that. I think some Whole Foods Stores also let you sniff, but I don't recall ever seeing the coffee beans to clear the nasal palette. But you could carry a small container of coffee beans with you.

I suggest this because if you find something you like, you would actually get an idea of cost. It may actually cost more at one of these stores than you if you order from Nature's Garden or Bramble Berry, etc. But you would be able to see the trend of higher and lower costs of what they have in stock and get a better idea if something goes well with vanilla, since vanilla seems to be part of what you want as well. Although I can't imagine a floral scent that would not go well with vanilla.

Lily of the Valley by NG is miserable to work with in my experience. It overheats severely and accelerates, as most florals. I actually had it overheat after being in the freezer overnight, and de-molded the next day. Good thing I had it in a crate to hold the mess. It also did not hold scent worth a darn at 6%. The next time I made it I put it in the freezer for 24 hrs and 3 days in the fridge before un-molding. It is a very naughty fo...

Keep in mind some EO's are high allergens for some whereas they can use synthetic fragrances and not all fragrances are all synthetic. My DB which I have made is almost all oils

 

[DeeAnna]

If the coconut oil doesn't say what type it is, it is probably coconut oil 76 deg -- that kind of CO is usually not labeled anything special. This is especially true if you bought it at a grocery store or restaurant supply. If you really want to know for sure and it doesn't say on the label, it would be best to ask the supplier.

Regardless, CO 76 and CO 92 have the same saponification value so it doesn't matter which one you use as far as the calculations for the NaOH needed.

 

[dixiedragon]

Consider making a solid perfume. Check out Camden Grey for ingredients. You could make very very small amounts, such as a slim lip balm tube which holds .07 ounces.

Simple recipe:
1/8 ounce Beeswax or Floral Wax
1/2 ounce Jojoba
7 drops Essential Oil

This recipe would make about 9 slim lip balm tubes. This has a lot of advantages:
You can use natural fragrances MUCH more cheaply. There won't be a lye monster to gobble them up. Floral waxes are really lovely and MUCH cheaper than EOs.

You won't need to worry about the lye monster morphing your gardenia FO. I can't find a US seller that offers gardenia absolute, so it may not exist.

 

[Margo]

I can't believe all the non-scientific opinions people give on the internet. Just go to www.thesage.com and use their calculator

 

[shunt2011]

I can't believe all the non-scientific opinions people give on the internet. Just go to www.thesage.com and use their calculator

What are you talking about? Nobody was asking for anything that needs a calculator. You've provided absolutely nothing to this conversation that is helpful. I don't get it.