New soaper in need of encouragement... and advice. Thanks in advance!

[Marie_with_an_e]

Just came to say your soaps are lovely! I superfat at 6% and have never experienced DOS ( knocking on all the wood in the house now!).

 

[jessica kiefer]

@justsomeguy I use the same test in my professional life, as well. It's helped me avoid many a sticky wicket and also to maintain the trust of the decision-makers (in my case, the courts).

Regarding expiration dates on oils, my practice depends on the particular oil. Some of them are extremely shelf-stable, including palm, palm kernel, and coconut oil. Tallow and lard are also very stable if kept refrigerated. I tend not to pay attention to the expiry dates on any of these. Instead, I trust my nose and eyes to tell me if there is spoilage (but it hasn't happened yet, even with really old PO and PKO - and they soap just fine).

The liquid oils are a different animal. Those that are higher in linoleic and linolenic acids tend to spoil more quickly. But even the high-oleic versions aren't as shelf-stable as the others mentioned previously. For that reason, I tend not to buy liquid oils until I'm ready to make an oil master-batch. That way, I can open them, mix them into a master batch, and immediately add ROE to the whole mix as an antioxidant. It only takes a tiny amount of that stuff - like a tenth of one percent, so a tiny bottle of it will last a long time.

For any liquid oils that are in an open container and not used in a MB, I like to add ROE to that container, as well. I also refrigerate that container whenever possible, but wouldn't ya know, my husband thinks that FOOD is the priority for our fridge. I'd love to have a fridge dedicated to soaping oils.... maybe someday.

What is ROE??? I'm learning....LOL.

 

[dibbles]

What is ROE??? I'm learning....LOL.

Rosemary Oleoresin Extract

 

[AliOop]

Rosemary Oleoresin Extract

Yup, and this is not the same as Rosemary Essential Oil (a common point of confusion for new folks). A great article about ROE is found here.

 

[jessica kiefer]

Yup, and this is not the same as Rosemary Essential Oil (a common point of confusion for new folks). A great article about ROE is found here.

So this is used as a preservative, right? I've heard of this. I grow rosemary and use it in canning....etc. It's the same process when preserving oily foods. Rosemary is a go to around the jar lip and making an oil top.(Putting oil barrier between the food to be canned and the jar top). Makes sense. Thank you!!!

 

[AliOop]

So this is used as a preservative, right? I've heard of this. I grow rosemary and use it in canning....etc. It's the same process when preserving oily foods. Rosemary is a go to around the jar lip and making an oil top.(Putting oil barrier between the food to be canned and the jar top). Makes sense. Thank you!!!

ROE is actually an antioxidant that keeps oils from going rancid. Same with GSE and Vitamin E/mixed tocopherols. You have to be very careful not to exceed the recommended amounts, or they become pro-oxidizing.

A preservative is a very different animal; it prevents microbial growth in water-based products. There is usually no need for a preservative in lye-based bar soap, as the high alkalinity and the nature of soap itself prevents microbial growth. However, you can get microbial growth in bar soap if you add lots of botanical matter to it, like whole oats, dried flowers, fruits that haven't been pureed well enough, etc. Without going too far down the rabbit hole, I'll just note that most preservatives aren't going to help with that, and leave it at that.

PS - thanks for sharing your process of using rosemary in your canning process - fascinating!

 

[melinda48]

This is the reason we tell new soapmakers to spend a year or two testing before selling. When I first started soaping I had a few issues with spots of dos appearing on some soaps, after lots of trials I determined my superfat had a lot to do with it. When I started out it was the belief you never went below 5% superfat and I would use 5-7% superfat. My first change was to cut my superfat to 3% going lower as the years progressed, boy was I bashed in the beginning for using low superfat. That has now changed and low superfatting is acceptable. My other change was adding in EDTA at the rate of 0.5% batch weight then I ended up adding in Sodium Gluconate at the rate of 0.5% also as my chelator, this further cut any dos issues. When I use lard in my batches I also add 0.02% of additional BHT which is an additive already in lard. Liquid oils which I would purchase in 5 gallon totes I would add in ROE after opening.

As far as expiration dates I did not stress too much about them unless the containers were opened and smelled off. Several years ago I traveled a long distance to purchase a destash lot that was claimed to be all fresh supplies. Several of the Kernel oils were at least 8-10 yrs old but had never been opened and showed no expiration dates. I knew the age because I knew how long I had been soaping and the labels were old label styles. I tested soaps with them letting the soaps age for at least 6 months and they were fine along with the lotions I made with the oils. I would even buy short expiration date HO Sunflower and Canola from my supplier for half the price when they had them available. Coconut, Palm and Palm Kernel Oils will last well over the expiration date on the box/container.

I will note I found some Lavender Essentials Oils would cause me some DOS issues especially if the Lavender was getting old. I had to make soaps that would last because I carried a large line of selection and many times my soaps would stay around for a year or two before selling. As it is now I still have 3 crate left with soaps since I stopped selling during Covid and none are showing signs of DOS, just less fragrance. But boy are they great Soaps!!

I had no idea that essential oils would cause DOS. I have some lavender 40/42 that is unopened but is from 2023. Now I am not sure if I should use it - or not…