Neem Oil Accelerating Trace

[Anstarx]

I've never used neem oil bought I have a 200ml bottle of it for a while and I'm determined to use before it goes bad as it's quite expensive.
I came up with this recipe for a facial bar:
Coconut 10
Castor 5
Palm 15
Neem 20
Hazelnut 20
Rice Bran 30
Not sure why exactly I used 30% rice bran but I do love its bubble. I thought it's going to be slow tracing so I was ready to blend for a long time.
Boy oh boy did that trace fast! The oils were room temp, lye slightly hotter as I figured it could reduce the blending time, about 50c or so.
I was stirring the oils and pouring the lye at the same time. I can see the batter visibly lightens and by the time all lye's in there, it's already at light trace!
I was worried it was a false trace so I gave it a few more bursts and yep, it's almost medium trace already. I scrambled to add in my EOs and quickly pour in the mold. Luckily I was only going to do a single color pour anyway.

I looked into the fatty acid today, apparently neem has palmitic acid at 21. Considering rice bran has 22 palmitic plus the extra palm, no wonder it traced so fast lol
Anyway, just a head up: be careful when using neem with other fast tracing oils!

Here's the soap I cut last night. I can still sense the neem smell but it blended well with the EO (half tea tree, half rosemary+cedar). Less garlic-y but very herb-y.
Added wheat grass powder and green clay for color. Black bits are ground tea leaves which caused the drag marks. Will water polish these later.

 

[AliOop]

I like the color and the shape! Neem at 20% - you are brave! I normally do less than 10% so the smell isn't overwhelming.

 

[cmzaha]

They look really good. I use Neem at 20-25%. It will tone down in scent and it does accelerate trace.

 

[Anstarx]

I like the color and the shape! Neem at 20% - you are brave! I normally do less than 10% so the smell isn't overwhelming.

I did use strong EO to counter that lol the raw smell was so strong that I had to pull out my gas mask. I can still pick it up in the finished soap but with the EO blend it just feels like a bunch of medicine and herbs. Not something you may want to smell all the time but refreshing for a wash.

 

[ShySoaper]

I've never used neem oil bought I have a 200ml bottle of it for a while and I'm determined to use before it goes bad as it's quite expensive.
I came up with this recipe for a facial bar:
Coconut 10
Castor 5
Palm 15
Neem 20
Hazelnut 20
Rice Bran 30
Not sure why exactly I used 30% rice bran but I do love its bubble. I thought it's going to be slow tracing so I was ready to blend for a long time.
Boy oh boy did that trace fast! The oils were room temp, lye slightly hotter as I figured it could reduce the blending time, about 50c or so.
I was stirring the oils and pouring the lye at the same time. I can see the batter visibly lightens and by the time all lye's in there, it's already at light trace!
I was worried it was a false trace so I gave it a few more bursts and yep, it's almost medium trace already. I scrambled to add in my EOs and quickly pour in the mold. Luckily I was only going to do a single color pour anyway.

I looked into the fatty acid today, apparently neem has palmitic acid at 21. Considering rice bran has 22 palmitic plus the extra palm, no wonder it traced so fast lol
Anyway, just a head up: be careful when using neem with other fast tracing oils!

Here's the soap I cut last night. I can still sense the neem smell but it blended well with the EO (half tea tree, half rosemary+cedar). Less garlic-y but very herb-y.
Added wheat grass powder and green clay for color. Black bits are ground tea leaves which caused the drag marks. Will water polish these later.

View attachment 47080

Lovely color

 

[shunt2011]

Love the color. Neem is something I've not used yet. I've avoided it because of what people say about the smell.

 

[pmrosie]

Does the smell dissipate? I plan on making some, and use a lilac fragrance oil. Maybe I had better use a more herbal scent. I plan on using the neem oil at 20%

 

[DeeAnna]

I've made several batches of neem-based soap ranging from 20% to 85% neem. The neem oil I have been using behaves nicely when I make soap with it -- I've not seen any unusual acceleration -- but I gather my experience is the exception, not the rule.

I suggest using neem at 20% or less of the total fats. Higher amounts work perfectly fine when making the soap, but I'm concerned about the toxicity of soap with higher amounts of neem if ingested, especially for children.

Another reason to not overdo the neem is the taste of 85% neem soap is incredibly bitter -- as in if you accidentally get the tiniest bubble in your mouth, you'll know it instantly and regret it for some minutes. Yeah, I know the bad taste should be a deterrent to kids chewing on the soap, but I also know many little kids will put anything in their mouths at least once.

IMO, a floral scent isn't going to play well with the odor of neem oil. Don't expect the smell to dissipate -- this isn't like a beer soap where the beery odor largely goes away. The neem odor mellows during cure, but is always distinct. IMO, the scent of neem in cured soap is middle-of-the-road tolerable -- not yummy, but not horrid. I've used a lime-cilantro fragrance in my neem soap. The lime adds a slight brightness to the neem odor, but the lime is only a mild accent, not a dominant note.

 

[pmrosie]

Thank you for your reply. I haven't made soap in several years and neem soap sounds like an interesting soap to make. Can't wait to see how this turns out. BTW, stealing your fragrance!!LOL

 

[szaza]

Just wondering.. has rice bran oil accelerated on you before? Because it has for me and I'm wondering if the 30% RBO could have increased the speed of trace, maybe alongside the neem oil?

 

[Anstarx]

Just wondering.. has rice bran oil accelerated on you before? Because it has for me and I'm wondering if the 30% RBO could have increased the speed of trace, maybe alongside the neem oil?

That's what I suspect, too. I think the two of them both contributed. I love its bubbles but I also like to have white batter for swirling so rice bran is not always my first choice. I normally keep it also 15% or so. I mostly used it 30% to counter the high cost of neem and hazelnut and EOs as it's one of the cheapest soft oil here.
Looking back at my soaping notes, there is one recipe where I used 35% rice bran. It took less than a minute to reach almost medium trace so it is definitely a culprit here.
However, I also used it at 25% for a soymilk bar where I used lard instead of palm and addded cocoa butter. It behaved well and the trace speed was pretty normal. So I suppose as long as I design the recipe right it' workable.

 

[cmzaha]

I usually use lemongrass, litsea, and tea tree oil totaling 6% in my neem oil soaps. In one of my former markets, neem soap was a very popular soap.

 

[PieBorg]

Years ago, I made an acne soap for my son using neem, tea tree, and some other additives I can't remember. With only the neem and tea tree oils for scent, it came out smelling exactly like Noxema medicated skin cream. I wouldn't add those two to a bath bar, but the medicine-y scent seemed appropriate in the acne soap.