Need some soap schooling

[Barefoot Farm Girl]

I’ve been doing some reading and some second guessing, hoping you all can set me straight!
1) Do you weigh your solid oils in a solid or liquid state?
2) measure in oz or fl oz? (Please say regular old oz)
3) I’m currently reading The Soapmakers Companion. I realize it’s old and a lot of things are done differently now. She talks about adding grapefruit seed extract as a preservative in the batter, is this still valid information?
4) I’m completely failing at getting a soap to gel. I’ve tried the wooden soap mold w/ a silicone liner. Covered and wrapped in a towel. Checked on it about 20 minutes later and it cracked. I unwrapped it for a little bit to cool it down, not even a tiny bit of gel. I made 2 small batches in individual molds and tried coop. 1st try set oven on warm, covered with parchment paper. After an hour turned off the oven and turned off the heat. 6 hours later, no gel. 2nd try, set oven to 150, I made a soap soufflé in 20 minutes that deflated once it cooled down. I’m using mica that is working fine without gelling. I’m mixing 1tsp mica to 1tbsp oil and adding at light trace.

Thank you all in advance, your knowledge and willingness to share is phenomenal! This is a remarkable group of people!!!!!!

 

[KiwiMoose]

1) solid state
2) grams and not mls
3) Most people use other things these days - ROE in the oils is quite common
4) Soap do what soap do - if yours doesn't gel, then so be it. It can depend on many factors.

You're welcome

 

[justsomeguy]

1. Solid state
2. Oz (by weight)
3. Unknown
4. I use purchased 42oz silicon lined wood molds and homemade freezer paper lined slab molds. My slabs always fully gel. The others are sometimeish with gel'ing. But if I put them in the slab mold and cover, full gel

 

[dibbles]

1. solid state
2. I weigh in grams, but if I were to use ounces - just ounces, not fluid ounces
3. If I have a large (7 pounds) container of oil, I add ROE when it is first open. Smaller quantities I don't worry about as they are used up quickly enough.
4. Are you sure you haven't reached gel phase? If soap is hot enough to crack, I would think it would gel. I use mostly wood molds with silicone liners. If the mold doesn't have a cover, I put a piece of cardboard over the top. I use heating pads under and over the mold and everything is wrapped up in a thick faux fur throw blanket. I soap at cooler temps and in my basement which is on the cool side all year. The heating pads really help to get things going and the soap always gels.

 

[AliOop]

^^What everyone else said.

I do want to clarify that neither ROE nor GSE are preservatives. They are antioxidants.

Preservatives are for water-based products and prevent microbial growth. They are pH- and temperature- sensitive, and require some study to determine the best one for your product, and the correct temperature for adding it.

Antioxidants are for oil-based products and can delay or prevent rancidity, including DOS. They can added to the oils when purchased, or to an oil MB, or to each batch of soap.

 

[not_ally]

Solid state
Everything gets weighed in grams
What @AliOop said about GSE and ROE
What @dibbles said about gel -I think that you probably did get gel when you CPOP'd, especially if it cracked. Also if you did not get a partial gel ring or something else that made it obvious that it wasn't fully gelled.

 

[jcandleattic]

I’ve been doing some reading and some second guessing, hoping you all can set me straight!
1) Do you weigh your solid oils in a solid or liquid state?
2) measure in oz or fl oz? (Please say regular old oz)
3) I’m currently reading The Soapmakers Companion. I realize it’s old and a lot of things are done differently now. She talks about adding grapefruit seed extract as a preservative in the batter, is this still valid information?
4) I’m completely failing at getting a soap to gel. I’ve tried the wooden soap mold w/ a silicone liner. Covered and wrapped in a towel. Checked on it about 20 minutes later and it cracked. I unwrapped it for a little bit to cool it down, not even a tiny bit of gel. I made 2 small batches in individual molds and tried coop. 1st try set oven on warm, covered with parchment paper. After an hour turned off the oven and turned off the heat. 6 hours later, no gel. 2nd try, set oven to 150, I made a soap soufflé in 20 minutes that deflated once it cooled down. I’m using mica that is working fine without gelling. I’m mixing 1tsp mica to 1tbsp oil and adding at light trace.

Thank you all in advance, your knowledge and willingness to share is phenomenal! This is a remarkable group of people!!!!!!

1- doesn't really matter - weight is weight and it will weigh the same no matter the state it's in - however, it's easier to weigh solids while still solid.
2- most people measure in grams, but oz would work too (I use oz) but you don't want to measure in volume (fl oz) because that is not the weight of the oil, just the mass.
3- perservatives are not necessary in soap, however, as dibbles and others have said, adding an antioxidant to an oil after it's opened will help with it's shelf life, but also as stated ROE and GSE are not perservatives.
4- I also agree with others, if it got hot enough to crack, it most likely did gel. There is no set timing on when a soap will gel, so maybe it went into and out of gel before the 6 hour mark when you checked?
Anyway, everyone has great advice here, let us know if you have more questions.

 

[Barefoot Farm Girl]

^^What everyone else said.

I do want to clarify that neither ROE nor GSE are preservatives. They are antioxidants.

Preservatives are for water-based products and prevent microbial growth. They are pH- and temperature- sensitive, and require some study to determine the best one for your product, and the correct temperature for adding it.

Antioxidants are for oil-based products and can delay or prevent rancidity, including DOS. They can added to the oils when purchased, or to an oil MB, or to each batch of soap.

Thank you for the clarification!

1. solid state
2. I weigh in grams, but if I were to use ounces - just ounces, not fluid ounces
3. If I have a large (7 pounds) container of oil, I add ROE when it is first open. Smaller quantities I don't worry about as they are used up quickly enough.
4. Are you sure you haven't reached gel phase? If soap is hot enough to crack, I would think it would gel. I use mostly wood molds with silicone liners. If the mold doesn't have a cover, I put a piece of cardboard over the top. I use heating pads under and over the mold and everything is wrapped up in a thick faux fur throw blanket. I soap at cooler temps and in my basement which is on the cool side all year. The heating pads really help to get things going and the soap always gels.

It didn’t look any different than when I tried not gelling the soap, could just boil down to a lack of experience on what it should look like

 

[Ford]

Hi,
1. Solid, That's how they come from my suppliers.
2. What ever you are comfortable with. I use ounces, but am using grams on a rd project.
3. Good book to start with, but there are some updated things these days.
4.a CPOP, with the oven on?
4.b cracked? What's in your recipe? Any added sugars will cause added heat. Goats milk recipes will heat up also.

 

[Barefoot Farm Girl]

Hi,
1. Solid, That's how they come from my suppliers.
2. What ever you are comfortable with. I use ounces, but am using grams on a rd project.
3. Good book to start with, but there are some updated things these days.
4.a CPOP, with the oven on?
4.b cracked? What's in your recipe? Any added sugars will cause added heat. Goats milk recipes will heat up also.

I’m not ready to play with sugar in my soaps yet, I’ve learned to stay in my lane (kinda, I just can’t seem to resist colors and smells) I just cut one of my bars in half, it did gel, but they are so funky looking. The mica did a weird thing where the soap is white on the edges, but a beautiful blue inside. Definitely not soda ash. I ended up tossing the whole thing, the FO smelled like a bad perm and I just don’t think that’s fixable! I don’t have the exact measurements handy, bout I used the basic trinity 30/30/30 with 10% avocado oil with distilled water. My goat milk version is coming along beautifully, I think I need to just get better micas. Im my enthusiasm and newbieness I got a big box of colors off Amazon that had good reviews for CP soaps. I think I’ll be giving them to my SIL for her resins

 

[Ford]

Hi, posting some pics. Will help us help you, also. You would not be the first. To have trouble with Amazon colors and fragrances. How large are your batches.
Thinking volume equals heat.
I do not cpop. My goats milk recipe will gell. With just towels on top. I use a reptile cage heating pad. To help my Lard recipe along just a little. Good luck.

 

[Barefoot Farm Girl]

Hi, posting some pics. Will help us help you, also. You would not be the first. To have trouble with Amazon colors and fragrances. How large are your batches.
Thinking volume equals heat.
I do not cpop. My goats milk recipe will gell. With just towels on top. I use a reptile cage heating pad. To help my Lard recipe along just a little. Good luck.

My soap soufflé

 

[Mobjack Bay]

My answers to the original questions are same/similar to above contributions. I would only add that soap making science has advanced considerably past what is in most soap making books. If you haven't already, I highly recommend that you visit the Soapy Stuff website where you will find dozens of articles that cover the basics and more.

Now, on to your soap. The blue is very pretty. FWIW - With 30% coconut in a recipe, I would find it difficult to keep a batch from gelling. It sounds like the soap overheated based on the cracking, plus photo #2 shows what looks like silicone rash or soap that otherwise got hot enough to bubble. I wouldn't judge the colorant too harshly based on this particular batch.

 

[AliOop]

The mica did a weird thing where the soap is white on the edges, but a beautiful blue inside. Definitely not soda ash. I ended up tossing the whole thing, the FO smelled like a bad perm and I just don’t think that’s fixable!

Awww, please ask us before you toss anything. That bad perm/ammonia smell is common, esp with milk soaps or certain FOs; it almost always goes away within two weeks max.

And I agree with Mobjack Bay that the change in colors was either related to the overheating, or you used a mica that isn't safe for CP soap. Lots of micas at craft stores and on Amazon say they are for soap, but they are talking about M&P, where there is no active lye. Anyway, the color change may not have been what you wanted, but it wasn't dangerous. Next time, use it to practice rebatching, or shred it up to use for ciaglia soaps.

 

[jessica kiefer]

I'm a beginner but, I had this happen and it was my percentages. I was using a 38 percent lye/water ratio....it was too hot. When I went down to 33 percent every recipe has been golden.

 

[Barefoot Farm Girl]

I'm a beginner but, I had this happen and it was my percentages. I was using a 38 percent lye/water ratio....it was too hot. When I went down to 33 percent every recipe has been golden.

I will give that a try for sure!!!!

Awww, please ask us before you toss anything. That bad perm/ammonia smell is common, esp with milk soaps or certain FOs; it almost always goes away within two weeks max.

And I agree with Mobjack Bay that the change in colors was either related to the overheating, or you used a mica that isn't safe for CP soap. Lots of micas at craft stores and on Amazon say they are for soap, but they are talking about M&P, where there is no active lye. Anyway, the color change may not have been what you wanted, but it wasn't dangerous. Next time, use it to practice rebatching, or shred it up to use for ciaglia soaps.

It was so rank smelling it was giving us all a headache!!!!

 

[AliOop]

@jessica kiefer and @Barefoot Farm Girl although most soap calculators default to water as percent of oils for the lye setting, more soapmakers prefer using lye concentration instead. It is a simple matter of selecting the Lye Concentration box in the soap calculator, and then setting your desired percentage. A good starting point for most CP soaps is 33% lye concentration; HP usually starts at 25% lye concentration.

Learning to do this early in your soapmaking journey will give you a more consistent batter viscosity as you scale batches up or down. It also means you don't have to mess with so-called "water discounts" - just lower the lye concentration for more water, or raise it for less. It is also necessary if you ever want to master-batch your lye solution, i.e., to make several batches' worth of lye solution to keep on hand for more convenient soaping with ready-to-go lye solution. You can read more about that here.

 

[jessica kiefer]

@jessica kiefer and @Barefoot Farm Girl although most soap calculators default to water as percent of oils for the lye setting, more soapmakers prefer using lye concentration instead. It is a simple matter of selecting the Lye Concentration box in the soap calculator, and then setting your desired percentage. A good starting point for most CP soaps is 33% lye concentration; HP usually starts at 25% lye concentration.

Learning to do this early in your soapmaking journey will give you a more consistent batter viscosity as you scale batches up or down. It also means you don't have to mess with so-called "water discounts" - just lower the lye concentration for more water, or raise it for less. It is also necessary if you ever want to master-batch your lye solution, i.e., to make several batches' worth of lye solution to keep on hand for more convenient soaping with ready-to-go lye solution. You can read more about that here.

YES that's it! I use the lye concentration box. It's easy to type in whatever percent you want. A lot easier.

 

[AliOop]

YES that's it! I use the lye concentration box. It's easy to type in whatever percent you want. A lot easier.

That's great to hear! I thought from what you wrote previously, that you only switched the percentage (38 to 33), but not the setting (water as % of oils to lye concentration). Sorry for misunderstanding.

 

[Barefoot Farm Girl]

@jessica kiefer and @Barefoot Farm Girl although most soap calculators default to water as percent of oils for the lye setting, more soapmakers prefer using lye concentration instead. It is a simple matter of selecting the Lye Concentration box in the soap calculator, and then setting your desired percentage. A good starting point for most CP soaps is 33% lye concentration; HP usually starts at 25% lye concentration.

Learning to do this early in your soapmaking journey will give you a more consistent batter viscosity as you scale batches up or down. It also means you don't have to mess with so-called "water discounts" - just lower the lye concentration for more water, or raise it for less. It is also necessary if you ever want to master-batch your lye solution, i.e., to make several batches' worth of lye solution to keep on hand for more convenient soaping with ready-to-go lye solution. You can read more about that here.

This is the default I’ve been using does that look right?