Need some help identifying a soap issue

[BrewerGeorge]

I will call around and see what I can find out.
Never thought to check out hardware stores for canning supplies. My local CO-OP might have some.
I live in Snohomish County, near Everett. 45 minutes north of Seattle.

Just to make sure you're 100% clear, I was talking about using sodium citrate, NOT citric acid.

If you add citric acid, it will use up some of the lye and create sodium citrate on its own in the batch. But you have to calculate and account for how much lye the citric acid "uses up" while doing so.

By contrast, prepared sodium citrate has already taken care of the reaction ahead of time and you just have to add it to the water before adding lye. You don't have to change the lye calculations at all.

That is a good suggestion.
This bar so far is feeling a bit drying and tight on my hands about 45 minutes after washing, but feels good right and the lather is freakishly nice.
Just made it the day before, so I will still give it a couple weeks before fully judging it. But I'm starting to think the problems I'm having are the Coconut % or the Castor..
Or ignore those issues and wait 2 weeks and wash again.
I'm impatient

You're going to have to be patient before you make judgments about this stuff. There are really massive changes in the quality of soap in the first few weeks of cure. The advice to wait is not us telling you "best practices" because of tradition or whatever. You just have to wait because days-old soap is absolutely nothing like it will be in 3-4 weeks. They ALL suck when they're new, and trying to make comparisons and change recipes so soon is just flailing in the dark. Seriously. Three weeks, dead minimum. It will be pretty close to what it should be by then, and four weeks is even better.

 

[toxikon]

Three weeks, dead minimum. It will be pretty close to what it should be by then, and four weeks is even better.

And then six months later... pure heaven.

 

[BrewerGeorge]

And then six months later... pure heaven.

Depending on what oils are in it, of course. :evil:

But I don't want to discourage him by making him think he needs six months or a year. I think the rate of change is REALLY fast in the beginning, but that rate slows down. So while a six month (balanced recipe) bar IS better than one that's 8 weeks old, the differences are a lot less pronounced from those four months than the differences in the first four weeks of cure.

 

[penelopejane]

Depending on what oils are in it, of course. :evil:

But I don't want to discourage him by making him think he needs six months or a year. I think the rate of change is REALLY fast in the beginning, but that rate slows down. So while a six month (balanced recipe) bar IS better than one that's 8 weeks old, the differences are a lot less pronounced from those four months than the differences in the first four weeks of cure.

Unless you are using olive oil in your soap - then 6 months and a year make a distinct difference.

 

[PatrickH]

Just to make sure you're 100% clear, I was talking about using sodium citrate, NOT citric acid.

If you add citric acid, it will use up some of the lye and create sodium citrate on its own in the batch. But you have to calculate and account for how much lye the citric acid "uses up" while doing so.

By contrast, prepared sodium citrate has already taken care of the reaction ahead of time and you just have to add it to the water before adding lye. You don't have to change the lye calculations at all.



You're going to have to be patient before you make judgments about this stuff. There are really massive changes in the quality of soap in the first few weeks of cure. The advice to wait is not us telling you "best practices" because of tradition or whatever. You just have to wait because days-old soap is absolutely nothing like it will be in 3-4 weeks. They ALL suck when they're new, and trying to make comparisons and change recipes so soon is just flailing in the dark. Seriously. Three weeks, dead minimum. It will be pretty close to what it should be by then, and four weeks is even better.

Thank you for clearing that up for me. Sounds like Sodium citrate would be a better option. Can it be added with Sodium Lactate to the water before adding lye? I will do some search on the subject to see what it's all about.
Is it worth messing with or is there not much of a noticable difference?

I'll start waiting 3 to 4 weeks for now on. Will just keep making batches and get them on the rack so I will have a new one to try at least once a week once cured.
It's like baking a cake, but not being about to eat it until it's been sitting on the counter for a month :-? But it's how it has to be.
Thank you for clearing all that up for me, that's very helpful it's making my soap journey a more successful experience.

 

[BrewerGeorge]

Thank you for clearing that up for me. Sounds like Sodium citrate would be a better option. Can it be added with Sodium Lactate to the water before adding lye? I will do some search on the subject to see what it's all about.
Is it worth messing with or is there not much of a noticable difference?

...

Yes, you can add both of them to the water, but you MUST do it before adding the lye or the citrate will not dissolve.

As for whether they're worthwhile, that's one of the things you should test both ways and decide for yourself. I will say that I use them both, even though I have softened water and don't strictly need the citrate. I use citrate anyway so the soaps are better prepared for gifting to people who don't have water softeners.

 

[Kittish]

It's like baking a cake, but not being about to eat it until it's been sitting on the counter for a month :-? But it's how it has to be.

That's an awesome analogy! I kind of felt that way with my first few batches. Here are all these lovely soaps, sitting right there on the racks, and I can't use them yet! Arrrgh! Making soap is teaching me LOTS about patience, that's for sure.

 

[PatrickH]

Thank you everyone for all your responses to my questions.
So much good info that I'll be sure to read it all again and do a bunch more reading and research from all the suggestions from everyone.
There was alot of direction here to put me on the right path to creating a good bar of soap.
Everyone was very helpful and I really do appreciate all the help.

 

[PatrickH]

Looked in the canning section at Wal-Mart. The had some stuff that has mostly citric acid in it, but there was 4 other ingredients in it..
I just bought 5lbs of Citric Acid on Amazon for $15 with free shipping (Prime)

 

[Susie]

You need to let your soap cure a MINIMUM of 4-6 weeks before judging it. Not a maximum.

Better yet, flip that recipe over and test and write notes on the back about how it feels at each week interval. Then you will know why we say to allow for cure. Then test it against a one week old bar.

 

[lenarenee]

In terms of 20% co being considered "low"; That's really of a matter of opinion; to me that's a nice moderate amount and one I recommend to new soap makers. I never go over 20% any more, and most of my soap is 15% for me and my middle aged friends. Some people use 30%, with or without a large superfat.

When it comes to a dry tight feeling from a newly made bar of soap I blame that newness more often than the coconut oil and I'm usually right - but that's my skin and my recipe. In fact, I've got a 1 week old 40% co soap, and a 5 week old 40% co soap by the sink right now. The 1 week old is not usuable on my skin, whereas the older one I can use a couple times a day with no problem. Only time and experimentation will show you how yours works out.

Has anyone ever read from a reliable source if certain oils contribute to a higher alkalinity? I've always assumed that was the case, but some facts would be nice!