Need help in making the ULTIMATE BAR SOAP

[Scoop80205]

For sodium citrate, I researched I need to add 1 part sodium citrate (or citric acid) to four parts distilled water. How do I measure that 1 part sodium citrate and measure four parts distilled water? How many teaspoons or cups?

 

[Scoop80205]

After searching and researching further, I discovered that the Melt and Pour Soap Base would be the easiest and safest the way to go, especially for this beginner...NO LYE!

I went over to Michaels, and they suggested that the Shea Butter Soap Base (5 lbs) and Sweet Almond Oil works with any kind of shower water. I also found Glycerin soap base as well. Did some more digging, and I found out that
- Tea tree essential oil can eliminate body odor
- Lots of skin nourishing and itch relieving benefits with glycerine, raw shea butter and sweet almond oil
- sugar can do more than juice up lather. Sugar, as a humectant (as glycerin does), attracts moisture from the environment, preventing dryness and enhancing skin's natural moisture balance, resulting in softness and hydration.

For five pounds of glycerine melt and pour soap base...
- how much raw shea butter to add?
- how much tea tree oil to add?
- how much sweet almond oil to add?
- how much sugar to add?

any suggestions?

 

[CecileBC]

Hi there ! You have done a lot of research ! It seems you're only at the beginning of a long journey... which is great
I just wanted to say that you may not find the ultimate recipe that works for you without making soap first. This place is an invaluable source of advice, but IMO it is best to go step by step. Accumulating a lot of info is important and will probably allow you to get straighter to the point, but there will be a time when it will not make sense if you haven't made a first soap. Things get into place slowly but surely, and you end up with YOUR ultimate bar of soap !
Good luck and have fun !

 

[artemis]

For five pounds of glycerine melt and pour soap base...
- how much raw shea butter to add?
- how much tea tree oil to add?
- how much sweet almond oil to add?
- how much sugar to add?

any suggestions?

First, don't buy a whole 5 lbs! There is a wide variety of brands, types, etc. Just get a pound. Then, just cut off a small hunk of that soap and try it as is.

As for things to add, the manufacturer of the soap brand, I believe, should have guidelines for how much extra you can add before ruining the soap. Spoiler: it's not very much.

Also, online, there are m&p (also called glycerine soap) that are made with Shea butter already in them. You might look for something like that if you like Shea butter.

 

[Quilter99755]

I found the Melt and Pour soap from Michaels to be drying on my skin. Prior to learning how to make soap, I used a melt and pour from Stephenson's and liked it better. But even my first batch of soap made primarily from OO and CO and that I hadn't cured, was better on my skin than either of the melt and pour ones.

I rather doubt if you will ever find your ultimate soap in m&p. You are just wasting more time and money without learning much. Get off your duff and make a small batch of soap. I'm beginning to believe that you really have no intention of ever making soap...you just like to research stuff and soap is your latest "bug". Go back to your Sunday post and fulfill your chore...just make the soap already

 

[Zany_in_CO]

Melt and Pour Soap Base would be the easiest and safest the way to go, especially for this beginner...NO LYE!

any suggestions?

I agree with @CecileBC and @artemis and @Quilter99755 All good advice.

BUT. If you are determined to try M&P, it's as good a start as any, especially if you want to avoid using LYE! However, rather than Michael's (which is sub-standard and mainly for kids) try SFIC M&P brand. It is known to be the closest to the all-natural handcrafted soap we make on SMF.

WSP (Wholesale Supplies Plus) is a treasure trove of information about M&P and the best place to get your feet wet. Since we don't have a large contingent of M&P soapers on SMF to mentor you, you can get all of your questions answered at WSP. Take some time to browse all their articles, videos, tutorials, etc.

They sell 3 types of SFIC brand M&P in 1-pound blocks: White, Clear and Shea Butter.

Shipping is FREE if you spend $25.

2 Blocks of SFIC M&P Soap Bases - 1 lb @ $5 each = $10
1 4-Cavity Rectangle Silicone Mold - 1 @ $15 - Makes 4 bars M&P soap, 4-6.5 oz each. That mold can also be used to make a 16 oz. batch of soap from scratch later on if you choose to go that route.

Once you try SFIC M&P Shea Butter Soap, if you like it, you might want to try another base from their lists of ALL MELT & POUR BASES to see what appeals to you.

You can use WSP Fragrance Calc to determine the amount of Tea Tree EO needed.

HAVE FUN! AND HAPPY SOAPING!

 

[Zany_in_CO]

- Tea tree essential oil can eliminate body odor
- Lots of skin nourishing and itch relieving benefits with glycerine, raw shea butter and sweet almond oil
- sugar can do more than juice up lather. Sugar, as a humectant (as glycerin does), attracts moisture from the environment, preventing dryness and enhancing skin's natural moisture balance, resulting in softness and hydration.

For five pounds of glycerine melt and pour soap base...
- how much raw shea butter to add?
- how much tea tree oil to add?
- how much sweet almond oil to add?
- how much sugar to add?

Keep this research handy in your notebook. It generally applies to handcrafted soap made from scratch. M&P bases don't have the same degree of latitude that made-from-scratch lye-based soap has, i.e., all four of those ingredients could easily be incorporated into a basic soap formula like the TRINITY OF OILS as well as others. With M&P, not so much.

 

[saintalchemist]

Hi, Brian, and welcome! My recommendation to new soapers is to make a recipe without colorants, scents, and exfoliants. It's a process with several steps.

I was motivated to make soap purely as a creative outlet. I was pleasantly surprised to see a dramatic change in my skin's health! I spent decades itching and applying a prescription several times per day -- now it's per year. My wife and kids noticed it too -- we were a rashy family and now we're not.

I also make lotion bars. For decades my fingertips would crack and bleed in the winter and I literally resorted to SuperGlue. Now my fingers stay healthy all the dry winter long.

Keep us posted. @AliOop is a master so just go with her recipe and tweak from there.

Good advice. And as a side bar, cracked fingertips are usually a selenium, zinc, and copper deficiency. I would know, I used to have that same problem. Now I supplement

 

[AliensrReal]

Cracked finger tips are most commonly a sign of just having dry skin. The main culprit is the weather. That’s why in the winter cracked finger tips are very common. Dermatitis, eczema and psoriasis are really susceptible to dry skin as well. The main reason why I started making soap is because most of the soaps I used were way too cleansing for me. Vitamin deficiencies can contribute to dry skin as well. The most common vitamin deficiency in a healthy individual is vitamin D. Micronutrient deficiencies such as copper, zinc and selenium are extremely rare and are generally found in patients with malabsorption issues.

That isn’t to say supplementation won’t help you. Zinc does help with the absorption of vitamin D. Sometimes even when you have normal levels of vitamins or micronutrients getting an extra boost of those could help with the problem. It doesn’t mean you are necessarily clinically deficient.

 

[AliensrReal]

We are trained to know about vitamin and micronutrient deficiencies as well as the causes for common skin issues. There was nothing I said that was wrong and can’t be backed up by evidence based medicine. It was not meant to be rude to you or insult your knowledge. I was just explaining the most common cause of dry skin.

 

[Servant4Christ]

Also, don’t use both sodium citrate and citric acid. Citric acid reacts with lye to become sodium citrate. I prefer sodium citrate bc no lye adjustment is required.

Does sodium citrate have the same reaction in Zany's faux sea water as citric acid? The last time I made ZNSB and added citric acid, my bubbles ranneth over and out!

 

[AliOop]

Does sodium citrate have the same reaction in Zany's faux sea water as citric acid? The last time I made ZNSB and added citric acid, my bubbles ranneth over and out!

Well, by putting citric acid and baking soda together into a liquid solution, you are basically putting a bath bomb into your lye water.

Bottom line, a recipe containing baking soda would call for using sodium citrate rather than citric acid, to avoid the foamy reaction. Also beware of adding too many salts into one soap recipe, as that can be problematic, as well.

 

[Servant4Christ]

Well, by putting citric acid and baking soda together into a liquid solution, you are basically putting a bath bomb into your lye water.

Bottom line, a recipe containing baking soda would call for using sodium citrate rather than citric acid, to avoid the foamy reaction. Also beware of adding too many salts into one soap recipe, as that can be problematic, as well.

Thanks. Yes, I remember @Zing using ALL the salts in @earlene's blacksmith soap.
This was a while back and I just wasn't thinking. It was my first time adding citric acid at 1 or 2% as a chelator and it just so happened to be the first time I used your math figures for the baking soda and salt instead of premaking the faux seawater for ZNSB. I just measured all three powders into one container and dumped it all at once into the warm distilled water! I just happened to think back on it today and wondered if the sodium citrate foams like the citric acid does.

 

[AliOop]

Thanks. Yes, I remember @Zing using ALL the salts in @earlene's blacksmith soap.
This was a while back and I just wasn't thinking. It was my first time adding citric acid at 1 or 2% as a chelator and it just so happened to be the first time I used your math figures for the baking soda and salt instead of premaking the faux seawater for ZNSB. I just measured all three powders into one container and dumped it all at once into the warm distilled water! I just happened to think back on it today and wondered if the sodium citrate foams like the citric acid does.

Gotcha, and thanks for clarifying. FWIW, I believe the reaction would still happen even if you use premade seawater and add the CA to that.

It’s always tough to add one more ingredient to the soap room, esp if you already have CA around for bath bombs or other products. But for me, having SC is worth it to avoid mucking around with reactions and extra math.

If you don’t want to buy SC, you could always make SC from your CA. I believe DeeAnna explains that process on her website, or maybe it was in some threads here on SMF.

 

[Servant4Christ]

Gotcha, and thanks for clarifying. FWIW, I believe the reaction would still happen even if you use premade seawater and add the CA to that.

It’s always tough to add one more ingredient to the soap room, esp if you already have CA around for bath bombs or other products. But for me, having SC is worth it to avoid mucking around with reactions and extra math.

If you don’t want to buy SC, you could always make SC from your CA. I believe DeeAnna explains that process on her website, or maybe it was in some threads here on SMF.

I actually don't mind buying sodium citrate and will likely order some now that I know it doesn't have the same bubbly reaction. I bought the citric acid a while back when reading about hard water, soap scum, and chelators because it was easy to find/ buy locally. I didn't buy a lot, just a couple of small containers from the baking section at Michaels.

 

[AliOop]

I actually don't mind buying sodium citrate and will likely order some now that I know it doesn't have the same bubbly reaction. I bought the citric acid a while back when reading about hard water, soap scum, and chelators because it was easy to find/ buy locally. I didn't buy a lot, just a couple of small containers from the baking section at Michaels.

If you end up not needing the CA for other B&B products (bath bombs, fizzy bath soaks, etc.), then it's great for cleaning coffeemakers, glassware, and stainless steel cookware.

For instance, the bottom of the stainless liner pot for my InstantPot often gets what looks like baked-on hard water spots (even though we no longer have hard water). They come right off if I add about 2 inches of hot water, sprinkle in about a tablespoon of CA, and swirl it around for about 60 seconds.

I also use a titch of CA (or vinegar) in dairy-free recipes where I want to replace dairy milk with coconut milk, but the coconut taste is not welcome. This includes my GF-DF corn bread recipe, and my DF cream "cheese" frosting. In every case, a very tiny amount of CA completely hides the coconut taste, even for my pickiest grandson who hates the taste or smell of coconut anything.

 

[jeanemarie]

I actually don't mind buying sodium citrate and will likely order some now that I know it doesn't have the same bubbly reaction. I bought the citric acid a while back when reading about hard water, soap scum, and chelators because it was easy to find/ buy locally. I didn't buy a lot, just a couple of small containers from the baking section at Michaels.

Sodium citrate is also great in the kitchen for keeping cheese sauces from breaking - especially cheddars. Restaurants use it all the time.

 

[AliOop]

Sodium citrate is also great in the kitchen for keeping cheese sauces from breaking - especially cheddars. Restaurants use it all the time.

Yes!! It even works for the non-dairy "cheese" that some of us are forced to imbibe.

 

[Servant4Christ]

Sodium citrate is also great in the kitchen for keeping cheese sauces from breaking - especially cheddars. Restaurants use it all the time.

This is actually partly why I don't mind buying it. I've been wanting to experiment with it in the kitchen for a while now to make nachos.