Need for Emulsifiers and Preservatives

[PrairieCraft]

I wasn't trying to imply anything really, just making a point. When someone talks about being extreme in one direction I just like to point out that it's possibly to be equally extreme in the other direction. Also, I really wasn't joking about not using lotion. I personally dislike lotion, if I feel the need to moisturize I just use straight oil. Boring maybe but it works and there is nothing in it that shouldn't be.

I only jumped into this conversation that doesn't really concern me because it seems so strange to me to ask someone with more knowledge for advice and then try to tell them that advice isn't valid. Just the bit about lotions growing mold within three days would be enough for me.

But, like a few others here have said, if you would rather risk some sort of infection (most of us have small cuts or abrasions to the skin constantly) than use a preservative that is definitely your right. Maybe you could keep us all posted on whether or not you see changes in the lotion, what those changes are and how long you felt it stayed good enough to use.

Also, I don't know if there is a bias on this site favoring preservatives. More like a preference for safety and doing things the right way. Dangerous, that's a pretty strong term. Problematic may be more accurate, or embarrassing if one of your gifts infect someone. People are notorious for letting product sit around way too long before using.

 

[Lindy]

Fungal infections are horrible! I've had them twice and I've no idea how I got them. (Although I can confidently say it wasn't from anything I made ) I had to go to the doctor to get a prescription strength cream to clear them up because the OTC creams didn't help.

This would be a good strong reason to use a preservative.

The only time you can get away from a preservative is if you are making a product that is oils only, no water, no aloe vera extract, no liquid of any kind. At that point yeah it can be safe as long as you are using something other than you fingers to remove it from the jar.

 

[AZ Soaper]

Why do you think they tel you to throw out your mascara and foundation after 6 months. Remember this is going on your face, around your eyes and mouth. Water is nasty even distilled. Don't you remember science class in high school where you cultured water? Even distilled grew thing. Probally just hand comtamination but even in a sterile environment bugs can grow. And I am a nurse and seen some REALLY NASTY fungal eye infections. IMO!

 

[Mayren]

Just an opinion :

Your right to use or not use preservative is your right.
No problem.

When I post to a public forum, it's my experience that
I have to be open to a broad range of replies, even if
I react to those replies in a positive or negative way.
In a sense I am asking a question so what I get in
return is what I asked for.... sorta, in hopes that the
returns are civil etc etc.

A point :

Many Soap& Bath & Body making forums
will have people replying with Preservatives and Safety
advice whether you directly asked for it or not and
I'm okay with this. I am okay with this because this
IS a public forum that is searchable by Google.
I want to know that any newbie running amuck can
find info on these topics with some kind of warning
to make them think about looking deeper before
slapping together some product that could hurt others.

Just my 2 Cents.

 

[lovetosoap]

http://www.associatedcontent.com/articl ... rs_of.html

Lotion users went blind using products that did not have adequate preservatives in them. I have a son that was born legally blind. Its a horrible condition to deal with. Why self inflict it?

 

[lovetosoap]

http://www.natalchemy.com/what-are-parabens.aspx

Here is an article oking the use of parabens. There are many preservatives to choose from with pros and cons of each. But they need to be used.

 

[seaWA]

But both of those articles indicate the dangers of parabens, they don't "ok" them. And the second one explains how the company uses natural preservatives instead, and that the need for preservatives is caused by the need for a long shelf life.

I think I'm being seen as argumentative because I'm not looking for advice at all, really--I'm looking for information. If I saw anything trustworthy that indicated people could go blind from using a lotion without preservatives within a month or so of it being made, of course I'd use preservatives (or not make water-based lotions at all); it's all a question of balancing known and unknown risks (of preservatives vs. their lack). As I've said before, I've used commercial products all my life without any apparent harm; I'm simply trying to understand what really is and isn't necessary, when I'm going to the trouble of making things myself (food or cosmetics), which I do partly in order to know what goes into things.

 

[lovetosoap]

If you do not want to believe us, then you do a search. There are many articles of people going blind using products without preservatives. I just think you already have your own mind made up and choose not to believe what you see.

As I said, there are many, types of preservative. Many do not like parabens---that does not mean preservatives are unnecessary.

And if you do not want to believe what you read, get your product tested 6 months to a year after making it. Maybe that will change your mind.

 

[Lindy]

There are preservatives that do not contain parabens - Germal Plus & Optiphen are 2. There are others.

As I've said before, as well as everybody else - if you want information it has been provided but if you are looking to prove that you are right you're not going to find it here.

Seriously, people here are trying to help you, it just seems that you want to someone to say you're right and that you don't have to use preservatives. Unfortunately you're not going to find that here. You are getting opinions from people who make this all the time and not one of is big business, but rather crafters who want our products to be safe for us, our families and for those of us who sell, for our customers. We've done the research, we've spent the time and the money to create the best products we can, so we are sharing this information freely, use it as you will, or not.....

 

[seaWA]

This is my last reply, because I'm not sure the conversation is useful for any of us...

It's not about right or wrong; it's perfectly legitimate for us all to come down in different places on the spectrum of what worries us (the various modern preservatives vs. what we might get if we don't use them). I only wanted help in gathering information that would help me make that decision for myself. Nothing I've learned here has led me to the research I was hoping to see: what exactly we need to worry about, in terms of infections that might be caused by a lotion, and how long we can reasonably expect a product to last (days vs. weeks vs. months) before it is genuinely in danger of causing such an infection.

Again, thanks to those who wanted to help.

 

[Hazel]

http://www.natalchemy.com/what-are-parabens.aspx

Here is an article oking the use of parabens. There are many preservatives to choose from with pros and cons of each. But they need to be used.

I find this article a little disturbing. Whoever wrote this isn't advocating the use of parabans, he or she is promoting products that are for sale on the website. It's another case of scaring the uninformed consumer into buying their products because they're "natural".

I know I'm not very knowledgeable about a lot of ingredients but I do try to read several sources before making a decision. I take exception to several comments in this article.

I have to go to work so I'll have to come back later to discuss this further.

 

[Sunny]

I can't think of a better reason to use a preservative than to guard against ... everything. You have no idea what you're guarding against, there's no way to know every single thing.

Fungi, bacteria, who cares? It WILL be in there, and when your health is at stake, why not do what you can to prevent harm to yourself?

I really don't know how to say it any differently than everyone else already has... preservatives are necessary to protect our health, our skin, our bodies. There are a lot of things that can grow in there.

Now I realize the OP has apparently left I'm just adding my two cents in case someone else comes along later to read this.


(Do you have a cat?
Did your cat shed a hair onto your bath towel?
Did you dry yourself with that bath towel?
Did you then apply your preservative-less cream?!
YOU HAVE RINGWORM NOW!!
... I'm being a little dramatic here... just kidding around... Someone needs to laugh at this thread, it's getting too heavy!)

 

[Hazel]

tasha,

You're absolutely right. This is getting too serious so what do you get when you cross a telephone with a night crawler?

Ringworm! har har har





yeah...I'm that tired.

 

[Mayren]

you guys are cute. it's a good thread to keep around.
The warnings need to be seen and the wise and sage
advice seen along with it to balance.

 

[Sunny]

so what do you get when you cross a telephone with a night crawler?

Ringworm! har har har

LOL!
love it!! :shock:

 

[chefinblue]

I know I'm jumping in late but I ran into this (http://www.100percentpure.com/) company recently and they may prove to be a good example of true all natural cosmetics..I'm sure their ingredient costs are high but they also sell through QVC. My husband and I used to import a topical pet product thet almost got on QVC but they wanted more accredited testing done in the US since it was from the UK. It passed numerous trials in the UK and Europe and was all natural and very safe but they pushed for more since it was a topical. In the end the manufacture didn't want to spend the money to bother with the extra testing.

Just mentioning this to show how stringent QVC is before they will sell a topical product to pets let alone to people..so if this stuff is selling there the natural preservatives must be working.

 

[chefinblue]

Great article on natural preservatives

Obviously finding the right mix, the right combination of elements and a lot of trial and error would have to go into effect to make creating a truly natural and safe product a possibility..but this is a great article non-the less..

http://www.personalcaremagazine.com/Sto ... ?Story=488

 

[paillo]

http://www.natalchemy.com/what-are-parabens.aspx

Here is an article oking the use of parabens. There are many preservatives to choose from with pros and cons of each. But they need to be used.

I find this article a little disturbing. Whoever wrote this isn't advocating the use of parabans, he or she is promoting products that are for sale on the website. It's another case of scaring the uninformed consumer into buying their products because they're "natural".

I know I'm not very knowledgeable about a lot of ingredients but I do try to read several sources before making a decision....

i find this article disturbing too. a lot of innuendo about parabens and no real info on what makes the seller's products 'better' or 'safer'.

i don't like parabens and avoid them -- known or suspected estrogen disruptors scare me -- but i totally would not make products containing water without some kind of preservative.

that said, there are a number of new and not-so-new 'natural' preservatives on the market. i've used leucidal liquid with good results, and am currently trying tinosan. aspen bark extract is another i plan to try. (lotioncrafter carries and has good descriptions.)

i make serums for myself, friends and family, with preservatives. i don't sell them, because i don't have the money or wherewithal to do the product testing over a long enough period of time to tell me if they're truly 'safe' after six months...

there's a lot of misinformation about what is a preservative, antibacterial, antimicrobial, etc. for example, vitamin e and GSE are two substances commonly mistaken for preservatives. they're not!

 

[Hazel]

i don't like parabens and avoid them -- known or suspected estrogen disruptors scare me -- but i totally would not make products containing water without some kind of preservative.

What's not mentioned is that parabens only create a minimal estrogenic effect. There are other ingredients (like soy) plus our own hormones that produce more estrogen or cause estrogenic effects.

I'm not very smart but I do try to read both sides of this controversy. I also was anti-paraben a few years back until I started doing research. I noticed that the anti-paraben articles either didn't present scientific proof or the information from previous studies have been misquoted or taken out of context; for example, the original 33 page report on the study which first noted low traces of parabens in breast tissue. This is the one which has mainly been taken out of context and has been used to fuel the controversy of parabens versus "natural" preservatives. Everyone has their own agenda. I don't like being scared into buying or not buying products.

Give me the facts and I'll make up my own mind on whether something is safe or not or if your product is better than someone else's. Don't attempt to frighten me in order to increase your profits.

That being said - I don't have a problem with people wanting to minimize their exposure to parabens. I use both paraben based and paraben free preservatives. I use what I feel is best for each product. Of course, I don't sell so I can't say how effective "paraben free" is as a marketing benefit.

ETA - I believe there are some essential oils that also can create estrogenic effects. I'll have to look this up.

 

[carebear]

Nicely put, Hazel.