Need Basic Soap Recipe

[DeeAnna]

There is a real mathematical difference between (a) discounting the lye versus (b) adding additional fat. A lye discount (a) takes the saponification value into consideration. Superfat (b) is a given amount of extra fat based on a simple percentage of the total starting fat in the recipe.

The two are approximately the same if the saponification values for the fats are close to the average sap value for all fats in the recipe. If the sap values of the fats vary widely from the average sap value, then (a) and (b) will not be the same.

But we've gone hammer and tong on this topic in the past, and I've not been able to explain it well enough to make sense in writing. So I'll stop here and just say ... it's a difference that is pretty much ignored and one that even I don't worry too much about. The soap recipe calculators are set up to calculate a lye discount, regardless of whether they call it "superfat" or "lye discount."

 

[DianaMoon]

There are a few recipes that people share here that I think would make terrible soap, but the vast majority are fine. If a person sticks with the classic soaping fats -- coconut, palm kernel, lard, palm, olive, etc. -- it's hard to go astray. Add in some shea, cocoa butter, or castor if you want. Leave the exotic and expensive ingredients -- jojoba for example -- for another day.

Run every recipe through a soap recipe calculator to make sure YOU know the recipe is calculated correctly. Do not blindly trust anyone else's numbers -- even the best soapers make typos.

I just happen to have a bunch of jojoba oil from years ago, hanging around. I can't even remember how or why I got it. It would be nice to use and I was curious as to how others have fared with it.

 

[penelopejane]

In Australia jojoba oils is more than ten times the price of olive oil. I don’t think many people would use it in soap for that reason alone. Most people save it for creams where the qualities of an oil would be more pronounced.

You can use just about any oil in soap as long as it is fresh and smells good.

Give it a whirl and report back.

 

[DianaMoon]

In Australia jojoba oils is more than ten times the price of olive oil. I don’t think many people would use it in soap for that reason alone. Most people save it for creams where the qualities of an oil would be more pronounced.

You can use just about any oil in soap as long as it is fresh and smells good.

Give it a whirl and report back.

I sure will - maybe I'll make a jojoba-Crisco soap! (In the US Crisco is a very downmarket product.)

 

[earlene]

If you have the jojoba oil and it doesn't smell 'off' and you don't want to save it any longer, and you want to use it in soap, go ahead. I used it in soap once or twice just because it was sent as free sample and I had no interest for making anything but soap. So go with it. I used only what I had on hand, which was a really small amount really, so no more than say 5% of the oils was jojoba. Probably more like 3%. I don't want to go search my notes to be sure.

 

[toxikon]

When I first joined the forum, here's what I did to learn as much as I could:

Google search the forum! All you have to do is type this into Google:

site:soapmakingforum.com your search term

Obviously replace "your search term" with whatever you're searching for.

Not sure what exactly "superfat" means? Try this:

site:soapmakingforum.com what is superfat

Want to know if you can use jojoba oil in your soap? Try:

site:soapmakingforum.com jojoba oil soap

Then you'll see all the previous threads and see if your question can be answered.

I don't mean to sound condescending, but it really is a great way to get your questions answered. You can even search for tried-and-true recipes that generous forum members have posted. There's literally a wealth of info on this forum and all you have to do is look!

 

[cmzaha]

Here is a link to a Soapqueen single oil test. Scroll down and you will find a jojoba oil test soap. Granted it is a single oil soap but you will see some of the properties it lends to soap. I also would keep it at a low percentage. If it is still good I would use it in a lip balm or lotion bars

 

[DianaMoon]

If you have the jojoba oil and it doesn't smell 'off' and you don't want to save it any longer, and you want to use it in soap, go ahead. I used it in soap once or twice just because it was sent as free sample and I had no interest for making anything but soap. So go with it. I used only what I had on hand, which was a really small amount really, so no more than say 5% of the oils was jojoba. Probably more like 3%. I don't want to go search my notes to be sure.

Does it add anything to soap? Someone here said that jojoba doesn't really saponify.

 

[cmzaha]

In my opinion it adds nothing to soap other than an expensive ingredient to wash down the drain. But you need to try it yourself to know for sure

 

[RacerSpuffy]

Does it add anything to soap? Someone here said that jojoba doesn't really saponify.

I'm pretty new to soap making myself, did my first batches in mid Dec '17, I wouldn't use a whole lot of jojoba oil in the soap yet for one simple reason. If you experiment and come across a blend you really like (and you are confident the jojoba can hold out a bit longer without going bad), then re-make it, with a few percent jojoba oil in it (re-running the ingredients through a soap calc) and then you could potentially sell or give it away as a 'higher value' soap. A lot of people like more exotic sounding oils in their soap just because they read it is there, whether or not it adds any actual beneficial properties.

 

[DianaMoon]

If you experiment and come across a blend you really like (and you are confident the jojoba can hold out a bit longer without going bad),

It's my understanding that jojoba doesn't go bad.

My next batch will consist of three ingredients: castor oil, cocoa butter and beef tallow, because I have them (40/20/40 at 33% lye, 5% superfat).

I ran them thru the Soap Calc, and got a really weird cleansing value: THREE.

Soap Bar Quality Range Your Recipe
Hardness 29 - 54 48
Cleansing 12 - 22 3
Conditioning 44 - 69 51
Bubbly 14 - 46 21
Creamy 16 - 48 62
Iodine 41 - 70 50
INS 136 - 165 141

What is going on here?

 

[jcandleattic]

All soap cleans. The cleansing number refers to how stripping an oil can be.
I rarely pay attention to the numbers on a calculator. They are guidelines at best.

The oils you are planning on using are less stripping so will have a lower cleansing #.
Look at a 100% Olive Oil soap - I believe the cleansing number is 0 but yet, it's a great bar of soap that will get you clean.

 

[DianaMoon]

All soap cleans. The cleansing number refers to how stripping an oil can be.
I rarely pay attention to the numbers on a calculator. They are guidelines at best.

The oils you are planning on using are less stripping so will have a lower cleansing #.
Look at a 100% Olive Oil soap - I believe the cleansing number is 0 but yet, it's a great bar of soap that will get you clean.

Thanks. I don't happen to like a stripping soap anyway. I did run a 100% olive calc and saw that.

 

[DeeAnna]

Another issue you might want to think about -- Castor at 40% of your fats (if I'm following your post correctly) is not going to give you the super bubbly, super creamy lather that "the numbers" are saying you should get.

Castor enhances and stabilizes the lather created by the other kinds of soap in your bar. It doesn't, of itself, make a lot of lather. The fats without castor needs to be formulated to be decently bubbly on their own -- then add a bit of castor to enhance the lather. If I had only castor, tallow, and cocoa butter and I had to use each one in multiples of 20%, I'd be more inclined to do 20% castor, 20% cocoa butter, and 60% tallow. To encourage lather, I'd add sugar or beer.

 

[DianaMoon]

Another issue you might want to think about -- Castor at 40% of your fats (if I'm following your post correctly) is not going to give you the super bubbly, super creamy lather that "the numbers" are saying you should get.

Castor enhances and stabilizes the lather created by the other kinds of soap in your bar. It doesn't, of itself, make a lot of lather. The fats without castor needs to be formulated to be decently bubbly on their own -- then add a bit of castor to enhance the lather. If I had only castor, tallow, and cocoa butter and I had to use each one in multiples of 20%, I'd be more inclined to do 20% castor, 20% cocoa butter, and 60% tallow. To encourage lather, I'd add sugar or beer.

Oy, gave the ingredients/percentages in the wrong order.

Meant to write Cocoa Butter/Castor/Beef Tallow - 40/20/40.

But I'll try your proportions as well, and add sugar.

 

[penelopejane]

You might find that castor oil at 20% makes a sticky soap.

I keep it at or under 5% in soap.

 

[Spice]

Hi Guys -
I totally understand not giving newbs total step by step directions - we gotta learn how to use that soap calc, and I think I have.
But do you have any tips and tricks to make the basic recipe - oils we should avoid, and so on. I want to make a basic hard soap with a moderate amount of lather. I'm not even sure I'll add fragrance.
BTW, I've read conflicting stuff already. In Susan Miller Cavitch's book she recommends adding grapefruit extract to retard spoilage, and on the website "Sweet Cakes" (which ironically I learned about from Susan's book) it says:
"Do not use grapefruit seed extract (GSE) -- it is a trace accelerator and if your soap is made properly, there is no need to preserve it."
Also on Sweet Cakes:
"DO NOT use a hand blender (also known as a stick blender) at all once you've added fragrance to your soap mixture (although of course you may feel free to use it before this point)."
I've seen some YouTubers who do use the stick blender to add fragrance. What do you say? (I intend to use a paint mixer anyway.)

Sweet Cakes:
"Do not over-insulate. Profusely sweating soap is the beginning of disaster."
Does this mean, do not cover the "pudding" (that's what I call the trace you pour into a mold" with towels?
I think I have the basic process down, but these little things are puzzling.
Thanks!!​

Does it add anything to soap? Someone here said that jojoba doesn't really saponify.

Oy, gave the ingredients/percentages in the wrong order.

Meant to write Cocoa Butter/Castor/Beef Tallow - 40/20/40.

But I'll try your proportions as well, and add sugar.

First, you're asking questions that will be answered when you start to make your own soap. You can get info, research....some, but the real proof will be when you start to make soap. The best teacher is our mistakes.

You will never know if jojoba is an oil you want to use unless you use it, see what it does, and then never use it again. That's if you dont like it.

I believe sugar causes soap to seize.

making soap is a lot like cooking, get to know your ingredients before you start adding. Would you make chicken soup with beef bouillon? Make your soap and see what happens, now you will have something to talk about. BTW, what is Rooto?

 

[Zany_in_CO]

BTW, what is Rooto?

Spice: Not Diana, but Rooto is lye -- 100% NaOH, sold as Drain Cleaner at Ace Hardware and Lowes among others. On a side note, when I read "The best teacher is our mistakes." that reminded me of something that happened at lunch today. We had Chinese take out. My fortune cookie paper said "Failure is the Mother of Success." So, well said!

Diana: Here's a link to a thread that talks about Rooto that might be an answer to your question about the "schmutz" you found in your lye solution. Post #17 in particular:
https://www.soapmakingforum.com/threads/rooto-lye-users-please-confirm.23371/

Does it add anything to soap? Someone here said that jojoba doesn't really saponify.

Jojoba "oil" is technically not an oil, but rather a liquid wax. It is said to mimic the natural sebum of skin and is a replacement for sperm whale oil they used in the olden days for the same reason. That's why its best use is for leave-on products. I must confess, tho, I've been thinking about trying it at 100% in LS, just to see, as Spice suggested, what happens, esp. the degree to which it saponifies, if at all.

An easy way to check what it brings to your CP formula is to do what you did for olive oil -- enter it into SoapCalc at 100% and click "Calculate" to get results. In addition to Fatty Acids and Qualities, the SAP Value is located near the bottom of those columns. Not terribly impressive. LOL Like Pine Tar, I'd consider it more of an additive than a saponified fat in the recipe -- Use Rate: 10% max.

I haven't used it in CP but I do add it to LS at 1-2% and it does seem to add something to the finished soap. The shelf life is listed as "indefinite" so that makes it a good choice as a carrier oil for EOs. To help "stick" the fragrance, add the EO(s) to an ounce PPO of jojoba the night before soaping and add it as you normally would your fragrance. I use it to get the most bang for my buck as a carrier oil with Oakmoss Absolute: 10% Oakmoss to 90% Jojoba Oil.

Okaybye.

 

[artemis]

I believe sugar causes soap to seize.

Just a quick note: I have never had sugar cause my soap to sieze. I almost always dissolve a little sugar in my water before adding my lye.

 

[jcandleattic]

Just a quick note: I have never had sugar cause my soap to sieze. I almost always dissolve a little sugar in my water before adding my lye.

Agreed - sugar(s) will help gel, and can overheat soap, but I have also never had sugar(s) seize soap.