My soap vs another

[danielle22033]

I am now starting to try other people's soap in order to learn about mine and how to better it. I recently bought a bar of soap at someone else's stand this weekend (I was not there for business) and Her bar was super hard compared to mine, and I was wondering if it had to do with my recipe and oils compared to hers so any advice is greatly appreciated. That being said I loved the hardness of her bar, however I found that I constantly had to keep putting her bar under the water in the shower to keep it lathering or else it would stick to me and create a suction almost. Anyways this is what I use...

Olive oil (around 30%)
Coconut Oil (around 15%)
Lard (around 15%)

I superfat at around 5%

The ingredients on the bar I bought are as follows... (she is not following the ontario labelling laws as inci names are not being used and there is no lye or alkaline in the recipe. So that being said I am not sure if the ingredients are in the right order.

Other Recipe:

Coconut oil
palm Oil
olive oil
coco butter

Please if you could compare both recipes for me so that I can understand clearly what I am doing wrong for hardness. However I think I am happy with my lather.

 

[100%Natural]

It could be as simple as cure time. Your recipe has 30% OO which can create a longer cure time. Did you ask her how long she cures her bars for? She has 3 hard oils in there which will create a really hard bar in a lot less time.

 

[FGOriold]

Your recipe does not add up to 100% so something is not right to start with. Can you expand more on your recipe?

 

[Obsidian]

One of my first bars had coco butter, shea and lard. It is super hard and it also make the "suction" on your body. My hubby uses them and they last quite well.

 

[danielle22033]

Your recipe does not add up to 100% so something is not right to start with. Can you expand more on your recipe?

the other stuff would be water lye FO and whatever I add

 

[Trinity]

Your oils still need to add up to 100 percent ....... You don't count the water or other ingredients as part of the recipe Do you mean
70 percent OO
15 percent CO
15 percent Lard

 

[FGOriold]

Yes, your oils need to add up to 100% and that is what your lye and water amounts are based on. Why don't you gives us your recipe using measurements (ounces/grams) including lye and water? Then we will have a better understanding of what issues you might be dealing with.

 

[danielle22033]

Yes, your oils need to add up to 100% and that is what your lye and water amounts are based on. Why don't you gives us your recipe using measurements (ounces/grams) including lye and water? Then we will have a better understanding of what issues you might be dealing with.

That is what soap maker 3 says I was just following that. It is 50% Olive oil and 25/25 of the others.

 

[danielle22033]

So does anyone know what oils are creating that suction? I don't really like it...

 

[HorseCreek]

For some reason I'm thinking that using too high a percentage of cocoa or shea butter can cause the bar to feel sticky like that in the shower. Maybe?

 

[Robert]

I've found that the combination of a small cake of soap with a thick small-bubble lather can cause it to stick. The shape of the bar is also a factor, more surface in contact with the skin increasing the effect, of course. That may not be what you're experiencing, though.

 

[CaraCara]

Danielle, do you do a water discount?

 

[judymoody]

A 50 OO, 25 PO and 25 CO bar should be plenty hard. I second the question about water discount.

I use cocoa butter (or kokum, depending on what I have) at 5-10% in all of my soap to contribute to a harder bar. But I haven't experienced the suction effect from it. Perhaps the soap you bought had higher % of cocoa butter or coconut oil.

However, I find that high % castor can feel a bit draggy on the skin.

 

[danielle22033]

Danielle, do you do a water discount?

No I do not, for some reason it makes me nervous I am afraid I won't have enough water for the lye :S

I have soap maker 3 (I am not sure if you do) but Could I change it to say 50% water discount? Is that safe?

Also, what should I expect when soaping? Will my lye/oil mixture trace faster or slower or no difference?

 

[DeeAnna]

There's nothing to be nervous about, Danielle, since you can to make a "full water" lye solution in the first place.

I'd say most people use a 33% solution (1 part NaOH to 2 parts water) or a 40% solution (1 part NaOH to 1.5 parts water) if they aren't using "full water". I have never used "full water" -- I almost always make a 33% solution. These lye concentrations are no more and no less safe than a "full water" solution.

How high can you go? As high as 1 part NaOH and 1 part water (50% solution). It can be a bit difficult to make a lye solution that concentrated, however, although it's perfectly do-able with care.

More concentrated lye can accelerate trace.

 

[Araseth]

I was a little worried about water discount at first but after I tried it I've never gone back to full water. I use a 47% lye solution and use soapmaker 3 to calculate it. I don't use full 50% because I don't like having to worry about the lye, the little extra water means that a few grams can evaporate when it gets hot and I don't have to fuss. You have less time to play with additives but swirls, layers etc are very much still possible and you get very hard bars very quickly. Remember to cut the soap soon after though as it will be too hard to cut later, I cut mine 1-4 hours after pouring into molds.



Adding salt to your recipe will also help with making a hard bar of soap.

As for the suction thing, I've never felt that in my soaps so can't say much about that.

 

[bobbie.johnson]

So with this decrease in water does it also decrease cure time?


Sent from my iPhone using Soap Making

 

[danielle22033]

So with this decrease in water does it also decrease cure time?


Sent from my iPhone using Soap Making

I too am interested in this answer?

 

[danielle22033]

Thank you DeeAnne and Araseth that helped a lot

 

[DeeAnna]

Does less water reduce cure time? I think the consensus is ... no.

Yes, it makes your soap somewhat firmer at unmolding, so it's easier to take out of the mold. For a soap made with mostly soft oils, that is a real plus. Yes, there is less water to evaporate because there is less water to begin with. Yes, there is less shrinkage as the soap cures. All good things.

OTOH, I've measured the loss of water vs. time and found it takes about the same amount of time for the water content to become stable as it does for a soap made with a higher % of water -- roughly 4 weeks, give or take a bit. If you define "cure" as the time it takes for the water content to stabilize, there's your answer....