My soap burns

[Reesedog914]

There was a comment saying that soap needed to " pass safety inspection" to be sold. I disagree. This barrier to entry would stop so many soap makers and cause such a hassle. Buyer beware should be the norm. If somebody sells bad soap the market will correct the issue ( by not buying it ). I am an economics degree holder and i know the consequences to such barriers of entry. Just another hassle that puts major corporations in the advantage.

 

[The Efficacious Gentleman]

There was a comment saying that soap needed to " pass safety inspection" to be sold. I disagree. This barrier to entry would stop so many soap makers and cause such a hassle. Buyer beware should be the norm. If somebody sells bad soap the market will correct the issue ( by not buying it ). I am an economics degree holder and i know the consequences to such barriers of entry. Just another hassle that puts major corporations in the advantage.

And yet it doesn't apply to all industry - try producing a car and see what sort of hoops you need to jump through. I imagine even over there in the US of A you need some sort of approval before producing car, which plays in to the hands of the corporations.

Saying "Buyer beware" and "the market will correct" doesn't help those people who have to buy a dangerous soap in order for other people to know that it is bad and it shouldn't be bought.

People in the EU do indeed sell handmade cosmetics, so the entry is not a barrier for people who are intent on doing it, but it does mean that the market is not flooded with charletans and fools who want to chase the quick buck with no experience.

 

[shunt2011]

I agree with TEG. Stating "buyer beware" and "the market will correct itself" is not the way to enter into this. Customers that have purchased less than favorable handmade soap will hesitate buying it again from anyone. It's so frustrating to hear someone say "I've bought it before and it did x, y or z to my skin and I'll never try it again.

This is why so many of us believe in making, testing and tweaking recipes for a year is favorable. Too many are now entering the markets with very little experience and have no idea how their soaps will be in 3, 6 or 12 months. They just think they are going to go out and make a millions.

 

[Saponista]

I saw someone on another forum asking how to make their 80% coconut oil baby soap that they were already selling less harsh!!!!! It makes me quite glad I live in a country with more regulations to be honest.

 

[Dorymae]

I have to respectfully disagree. I believe the market will most certainly correct a bad soap maker and I certainly DO NOT think we need any more regulation especially on soap.

Using soap is not inherently dangerous. How many people do you know that have had REAL harm come to them from using soap. ( not taking about allergies because that can happen to anyone at anytime.) I'm not sure of the statistics but my guess is that it doesn't happen often.

I don't want the government sticking it's extremely large nose everywhere. Now I would agree we should stop sticking it into other countries business as well but that is another story.

Bottom line is the government can not really keep anyone safe, all they can do is give you solid legal recourse if you are harmed. They can try to keep you safe with regulations, but considering how many people already make wild claims, I don't think it would do much good.

Let the government spend its resources on something useful, like trying to balance budgets, that seems to really push their abilities.

 

[yadonm]

Just a thought...a lot of people have soybean allergies.

 

[happyshopper]

It is not very easy for a buyer to be aware when purchasing soap.

With other handmade items, a dress for example, a buyer would clearly be able to see the difference between someone who had been sewing a week and someone who had been sewing for years. With soap however it is not easy to tell, unless you are a soap maker yourself (and then you wouldn't be buying it) one bar of soap looks like another, one soap could be perfect the other could be heavy on lye and made with the wrong combination of oils - to the untrained eye I doubt there would be much difference by looking at them.

 

[not_ally]

The thing about soap is that anyone can make it. And some of those youtube videos are frigging scary. I can't find the link now, but I remember watching (with horrified fascination) one from a woman who - apparently in the same space - made soap without any safety/antisceptic measures, flung everything about with great abandon, and performed some kind of surgical procedure on her cat.

Dory, I agree that there is some over-regulation on soap, but I also think that there need to be some safe-keeping measures (especially good labeling for people who have severe allergies to well-known allergans) before it can be sold, I know people who have really bad reactions to certain ingredients.

 

[Susie]

With all due respect, not_ally, if people with known allergies buys a bar of soap without a list of ingredients, it is not the seller's fault. It is the buyer's fault. They should know better, and be pro-active enough to take care of themselves.

 

[not_ally]

I agree, to some extent, Susie. But the thing is that people who are walking around in a farmer's market are not the most informed of consumers (even if they should be). You are a soapmaker who has done a lot of research on allergans. I am one who had done less. I think buyers have often done almost zero, they just buy based on the way things look and smell. Wise? Of course not. But I sort of think the onus is on us, as the ones that have done that research, to give them the heads up. Not to mention good for liability reasons. I admit that I am very cautious about that stuff.

 

[The Efficacious Gentleman]

There was someone a while back who asked a seller if the soap contained a certain oil, as they knew they had an allergy. The seller said no, it doesn't. It actually DID contain the oil! The person had what I take was a (thankfully!) mild reaction that could have been worse

 

[Reesedog914]

Comparing the automotive industry to soap making is apples and oranges. As one user stated before, little harm comes from bad bar of soap besides the person not buying from that supplier anymore. There is no need for government intervention here. Stop relying on government to solve all your problems.

 

[Saponista]

Little harm? If you call having your skin burned off from a lye heavy bar or having a horrific reaction from way too much essential oil then I suppose I agree with you.

 

[The Efficacious Gentleman]

There was someone a while back who asked a seller if the soap contained a certain oil, as they knew they had an allergy. The seller said no, it doesn't. It actually DID contain the oil! The person had what I take was a (thankfully!) mild reaction that could have been worse

Comparing the automotive industry to soap making is apples and oranges. As one user stated before, little harm comes from bad bar of soap besides the person not buying from that supplier anymore. There is no need for government intervention here. Stop relying on government to solve all your problems.

I don't like to quote myself, but in the real world example above, someone could have easily been seriously hurt. It is not too hard to imagine this oil being peanut oil and someone then having a reaction to it that results in a great deal of harm.

While in theory having people themselves regulate the market, I think it falls over on the fact that people are people - look at how well companies like DoTerra and so on were doing before the government finally got involved and how many other companies out there are doing very well even though the product is at very best shoddy.

I know that the US citizens generally take a dim view of The Feds getting involved, but you also have to admit that the current state of things is not working either. Maybe something in between.

It will be interesting to see what comes from the US/EU talks on free markets, as I don't see the EU making cosmetics as open as it is in the US, nor can I imagine the US tightening it to match our regulations.

 

[LBussy]

I think, as much as I have some very good arguments and want to make them, that we're bordering on politics here. Dad always told me that was a no-no.

 

[MorpheusPA]

About the only requirement I'd like to see is requiring accurate labeling with ingredients. Most of us do this already. I do this already and I don't sell--but what if I give a bar with coconut oil to somebody who's allergic to it? Not a good idea, and I certainly don't want to cause anybody harm.

Some of my bars are given to friends of friends, who I don't know directly, or given at the yearly Yankee Swap we have with the family (and dates of family, and friends, and people who just kind of wandered in...)

Plus stuff does get around. My mom's given bars I've given her to others who admired them. Far from being annoyed at the re-gifting, I just tell her to ask for feedback.

Accurate labeling is an absolute requirement as far as I'm concerned.

 

[JBot]

About the only requirement I'd like to see is requiring accurate labeling with ingredients. Most of us do this already. I do this already and I don't sell--but what if I give a bar with coconut oil to somebody who's allergic to it? Not a good idea, and I certainly don't want to cause anybody harm.

Some of my bars are given to friends of friends, who I don't know directly, or given at the yearly Yankee Swap we have with the family (and dates of family, and friends, and people who just kind of wandered in...)

Plus stuff does get around. My mom's given bars I've given her to others who admired them. Far from being annoyed at the re-gifting, I just tell her to ask for feedback.

Accurate labeling is an absolute requirement as far as I'm concerned.

Amen to that. I had a friend who had a reaction to the mango butter in a bar I gave her, even though it WAS labeled, and even though she knew she was allergic to mango, papaya, and banana. She checked the label as soon as her skin started welting. She probably wouldn't have used it again anyway, but still. . .

 

[MorpheusPA]

Amen to that. I had a friend who had a reaction to the mango butter in a bar I gave her, even though it WAS labeled, and even though she knew she was allergic to mango, papaya, and banana. She checked the label as soon as her skin started welting. She probably wouldn't have used it again anyway, but still. . .

Peace of mind is not to be underestimated. She knew what she was reacting to, and what was likely to happen--and whether or not she needed medical attention immediately, which it doesn't seem she did.

All that because you had a label on the soap that she could look at and say, "Oh, yeah, mango butter. I'll itch for a couple hours. Where's the Benadryl? And does Hallmark make a 'Thanks for the allergic reaction, jerk!' card?"

 

[kchaystack]

All that because you had a label on the soap that she could look at and say, "Oh, yeah, mango butter. I'll itch for a couple hours. Where's the Benadryl? And does Hallmark make a 'Thanks for the allergic reaction, jerk!' card?"

If not, you can always make your own.

I made the mistake of looking at making my own soap boxes... and caught the card making bug! :O

 

[Reesedog914]

I can agree with labeling of what you have put in your soap. ( ingredients )

Any other type of regulation -- no. The government does not need to be involved in every facet of your life. The market will create solutions to problems in you just give it a chance. ( and sometimes maybe government intervention IS necessary ). Consider the militias in mexico who have risen up to fight the cartels because there was no police force to protect them. Who pays these militias? ( nobody ). There risks in life, shall we make a law saying you cannot go outside?