My Palm Free Vegan Soap Adventures

[Dean]

I just melt it in the microwave and transfer it to a cool container.

 

[Chris_S]

I just melt it in the microwave and transfer it to a cool container.

ok sounds easy enough im just trying get my head round any potential issues so i can plan for them before they may happen. Think im planning for worse when i dont even need too

 

[Dean]

ok sounds easy enough im just trying get my head round any potential issues so i can plan for them before they may happen. Think im planning for worse when i dont even need too

 

[KiwiMoose]

40c is about 100f I think

 

[LilyJo]

Soy wax melts really quickly at quite a low temperature, Ive always melted mine either in a double boiler or directly over a low heat - if you melt in a microwave do it in short burst so you dont scorch it.

 

[Richard Dakesian]

I was browsing to search more stuff here on beer soap and what fragrance oils/EO's members here use and came upon this thread.

Here is a video of a woman making soap with a lot of wax in it.

 

[Chris_S]

Soy wax melts really quickly at quite a low temperature, Ive always melted mine either in a double boiler or directly over a low heat - if you melt in a microwave do it in short burst so you dont scorch it.

I make candles with soy so iv melted plenty of it in the microwave, reason being that i use the microwave is that i work in my spare room and it would mean carrying everything upstairs plus you can clean plastic jugs ect easier than metal. Iv never heard of it being scorched though? The manufacturers of the wax iv got say that temperarly heating it to upto 90c wont cause any issue not that i have done that. I usually heat for a minute twice then blast for 20-30 seconds until its about 50c then 10 seconds til its clear. then wait till it drops to about 55c before i pour it. Iv a digital inferred thermometer so the temps should be pretty accurate. Also i believe that different waxes will have various melt points probably dependant on what addatives they use. Not sure how much it varies though

What brand soy wax do you use for soaps @LilyJo? And whats it called, supplier ect

Ok so now the whole melt point has been cleared up and corrected im pretty sure i was thinking of the pour temp not melt temp! Does soy wax cause accelerated or just faster trace or likely to cause any increased reaction to colours (mica) or fragrance?

Thank you richard not sure how much help that will be as i use cp not hp method which is what that is

 

[LilyJo]

We stopped using soy a while back as it was so unpredictable - once they discontinued CB135 the replacements didnt throw as well so we created our own soy and coconut blend.

I found though that in general when it gets too hot it doesnt burn once its a candle and repeated melts at a high temperature does affect the overall performance - I know in the past I tried melting in the microwave but it made for hot spots scorched edges.

 

[Chris_S]

We stopped using soy a while back as it was so unpredictable - once they discontinued CB135 the replacements didnt throw as well so we created our own soy and coconut blend.

I found though that in general when it gets too hot it doesnt burn once its a candle and repeated melts at a high temperature does affect the overall performance - I know in the past I tried melting in the microwave but it made for hot spots scorched edges.

Interesting iv noticed that the throw isnt as good without careful checking of the temps pour and when adding the fo. Might do my own experiments one in a double boiler and the other in the microwave and see how they burn on test burning. Your tests sound pretty thorough but im using different wax so its worth trying it myaelf to see if it effects this wax too. Although as i said i dont go over 65c anyways so hopefully that wont make any difference and thinking about it the manufacturer says it doesnt discolour so i guess they are talking about something different there.

The main reason i use the microwave and work upstairs is because i have a tiny kitchen which is fine for cooking for one but to add candle making into that it starts to get very chaotic.

I know it was me who changed the subject so probably wasnt obvious but i was actually meaning what soy wax do you use in soaps not candles butt im glad you mentioned about the candles because it gives me a new way to look at possible issues! Thanks for all the input interesting and increadibly helpful as usual

 

[KiwiMoose]

I don’t find it accelerates trace, and I use it in every batch with micas and colourants. You’ve seen all my patterns and things I do.
Have you read my Soy wax users thread? It could be worth contributing on there once you’ve had a go at it.
The only thing is that I think you need to soap at a minimum of 100f so it doesn’t want to start setting up as you are pouring.

 

[Chris_S]

I don’t find it accelerates trace, and I use it in every batch with micas and colourants. You’ve seen all my patterns and things I do.
Have you read my Soy wax users thread? It could be worth contributing on there once you’ve had a go at it.
The only thing is that I think you need to soap at a minimum of 100f so it doesn’t want to start setting up as you are pouring.

I generally soap about 110f anyways so this is perfect. I started to read it but honestly it seems like a very long read now im quite honestly slow and bad at reading so with how much posting has been done since i last read it, its quite intimidating. Once i have given it a try i will try filter whats important for me and get it read best i can. And i will add to it if i feel i can add something of interest or relivance but ill also be adding my photos to here as its about my vegan palm free soaps

 

[Rune]

[QUOTE="Chris_S, post: 752204, member: 28374"Im struggling to find anything about cosmetic soy wax to buy in the uk. If anyone knows a site that sells such a thing without mad postage costs to bump up the prices please do enlighten me thanks[/QUOTE]

I'm looking too in the UK, since I have to order from abroad. I found some, but always look for better prices. But, they have soy wax for cosmetics at:

New Directions have one from the brand BiOrigins, it seems perfectly fine, food safe too:
https://newdirectionsuk.com/products/soya-wax-cosmetic-waxes

Mother Nature Goodies have NatureWax C3 (which I think is fine for soapmaking, but others have to confirm that). It seems food safe since it can be used for coatings on paper cups:
https://mothernaturesgoodies.co.uk/soy-wax-flakes-for-cosmetics-massage-bars-and-massage-candles/

The soy wax recommended to me by @Dawni, Golden Wax 415 is really not easy to find anywhere in the UK. But those two waxes linked to, are free of non-soy additives. To get detailed information about what they really exist of is difficult since you have different label rules than we have. Hydrogenated soybean oil covers it all, partial hydrogenation also. Most likely the soy waxes are blends of fully and partially hydrogenated soybean oil (in Norway, that have to be specified) to make a container blend with lower melting point. The soy wax from Mother Nature Goodies, NatureWax C3 have the same melting point as Golden Wax 415. The wax from New Directions have no information about any melting point. They just jumped over that part of important information. But they write to heat the wax to 71-82 degrees, add fragrance and let cool slowly. Probably before pouring (I'm not a candle maker). That would mean the melting point is lower than 71 degrees, since it still is pourable after cooling.

I will buy from Mother Nature Goodies, just because they have lower international shipping. So low (only 5 gbp) that I'm afraid to get a surprise bill afterwards or something. We'll see.

 

[Rune]

The quote thing didn't really work well. But the first message is ment for @Chris_S

 

[Chris_S]

[QUOTE="Chris_S, post: 752204, member: 28374"Im struggling to find anything about cosmetic soy wax to buy in the uk. If anyone knows a site that sells such a thing without mad postage costs to bump up the prices please do enlighten me thanks

I'm looking too in the UK, since I have to order from abroad. I found some, but always look for better prices. But, they have soy wax for cosmetics at:

New Directions have one from the brand BiOrigins, it seems perfectly fine, food safe too:
https://newdirectionsuk.com/products/soya-wax-cosmetic-waxes

Mother Nature Goodies have NatureWax C3 (which I think is fine for soapmaking, but others have to confirm that). It seems food safe since it can be used for coatings on paper cups:
https://mothernaturesgoodies.co.uk/soy-wax-flakes-for-cosmetics-massage-bars-and-massage-candles/

The soy wax recommended to me by @Dawni, Golden Wax 415 is really not easy to find anywhere in the UK. But those two waxes linked to, are free of non-soy additives. To get detailed information about what they really exist of is difficult since you have different label rules than we have. Hydrogenated soybean oil covers it all, partial hydrogenation also. Most likely the soy waxes are blends of fully and partially hydrogenated soybean oil (in Norway, that have to be specified) to make a container blend with lower melting point. The soy wax from Mother Nature Goodies, NatureWax C3 have the same melting point as Golden Wax 415. The wax from New Directions have no information about any melting point. They just jumped over that part of important information. But they write to heat the wax to 71-82 degrees, add fragrance and let cool slowly. Probably before pouring (I'm not a candle maker). That would mean the melting point is lower than 71 degrees, since it still is pourable after cooling.

I will buy from Mother Nature Goodies, just because they have lower international shipping. So low (only 5 gbp) that I'm afraid to get a surprise bill afterwards or something. We'll see.[/QUOTE]

Iv now got some dermatologically tested soy from livemoor called livesoy. I only got 10kg because if i dont like it in soaps it will be fine for container candles. Not sure on the shipping costs to europe but its free 48 hour post to uk free next day for any 25kg or over so might be worth giving them a look see what its like for you. Either that or maybe find a supplier for kerax as they have just started making something they call a massage blend. If i can find out how much it would cost to send a small amount to you i could send like 100g of this stuff to see if you like it if you are willing to cover the postage costs?

On stuff iv seen that have needed importing into the country they usually say that they need or include the taxes. The offer to send a small bag to you is there if you want. Iv got some c3 wax that iv been using to coat my candle wicks with didnt like how the candles made with it turned out but still got a kg or so left.

Edit, it didnt work for me either for some reason lol

 

[KiwiMoose]

@Rune -I have read through the specs on that Mother Nature wax and it look fine - certainly worth a try. It's cheaper than the new directions one anyway. And if it's not too much difference in shipping I'd get at least 500g, or preferably a kilo. The smaller packs will only last you one or two batches of soap. I've started buying mine in 5kg lots now. The shipping is the same as 1kg and it brings the price down from $NZ13 per kg to $NZ9. It's taking me a while to get through it all, but it's nice to know I have plenty when I use it t 20% in every recipe.

 

[Rune]

I was at Livemoor, but did not find the Golden Wax 415 (which I did not find anywhere else either), so I went out again. I did go there now, just to check their shipping prices. And it is not bad at all, definately not. 8,95 for one kilo. For 2 kilo, it is 18,99, which is a little pricey, actually so much that I can't order more than something under 2 kilo, otherwise I will go over our limit and have to pay customs and extra VAT. But they for sure have a lot to offer in their shop!

I did buy soy wax from Mother Nature Goodies, plus rapeseed wax, just out of curiosity, so right now I don't need more soy wax. I bought the NatureWax C3. But, if it is difficult to work with, I would love a little piece of your Livesoy or Kerax. But I can test out the C3 first, maybe it is just fine. Anyway, thank you so much for the offer!

I have never made candles, but I have 5 kilo of some wax I don't really know what is, other than it is called Palmac 50-18 and contains approximately 50/50 of stearic and palmitic acid. It was sold as "stearin for blend", and doesn't really work well at all in soap unless perhaps in very small quantities. I have tried it 20% of the recipe, and it was instant seize. I thought I could make some candles with it, just to get rid of it, but it says it must be blended with something and used maximum at 50%. The recommended was 5-10% or something, I can't remember. So I guess I have to make wax melts instead, or find something to blend it with. Oh no, of course! I can make hot process shaving soap! Yes, I will try that.

I could offer to send to you for use in candles, but the shipping for up to 2 kilo is 13,50 pounds, around 10 pounds for up to 1 kilo, so cheaper to buy from the UK than to get something free shipped from this expensive country.

 

[Chris_S]

I was at Livemoor, but did not find the Golden Wax 415 (which I did not find anywhere else either), so I went out again. I did go there now, just to check their shipping prices. And it is not bad at all, definately not. 8,95 for one kilo. For 2 kilo, it is 18,99, which is a little pricey, actually so much that I can't order more than something under 2 kilo, otherwise I will go over our limit and have to pay customs and extra VAT. But they for sure have a lot to offer in their shop!

I did buy soy wax from Mother Nature Goodies, plus rapeseed wax, just out of curiosity, so right now I don't need more soy wax. I bought the NatureWax C3. But, if it is difficult to work with, I would love a little piece of your Livesoy or Kerax. But I can test out the C3 first, maybe it is just fine. Anyway, thank you so much for the offer!

I have never made candles, but I have 5 kilo of some wax I don't really know what is, other than it is called Palmac 50-18 and contains approximately 50/50 of stearic and palmitic acid. It was sold as "stearin for blend", and doesn't really work well at all in soap unless perhaps in very small quantities. I have tried it 20% of the recipe, and it was instant seize. I thought I could make some candles with it, just to get rid of it, but it says it must be blended with something and used maximum at 50%. The recommended was 5-10% or something, I can't remember. So I guess I have to make wax melts instead, or find something to blend it with. Oh no, of course! I can make hot process shaving soap! Yes, I will try that.

I could offer to send to you for use in candles, but the shipping for up to 2 kilo is 13,50 pounds, around 10 pounds for up to 1 kilo, so cheaper to buy from the UK than to get something free shipped from this expensive country.

Thank you for the offer but iv got more wax in this house than i can shake a flaming stick at 25kg soy for pillar and melts 25kg of soy for containers and now 10kg of the wax ill be using in soaps and if i dont like it ill have 35kg of container candle wax lol i think you would have to blend it with either soy or paraffin wax to make candles with it. I know of palm wax to use in candles and melts but as far as im aware you dont need to blend it with anything. I love making candles and melts iv done more of that recently than i have soap making infact its been nearly 2 months since i last made soap mostly because of a the big pile of washing up i need to do before i am able to soap its far easier to clean up after candle making! But i intend to make soap with soy wax soon.

Have you thought of rapeseed wax for soaps? That might be something you would be able to get in your country and therefore it could be cheaper but if your happy with buying soy from where you have found it then you might aswell go for that.

Kiwi i ordered 10kg right off the bat of the wax for soap mine worked out as about 3 quid a kg 5kg was at least double and less than that was not far off the cost of cocoa butter per kg and as i make candles i can just use that for the candles its free postage for me too so thats a bonus. Supplies for candles in another site i often use for fragrances although i wait till iv got a big order to put in or randalls candles not sure if either of them sell any that are suitable for soaps though

 

[Rune]

I bought rapeseed wax, so I will test it out. I bought just 1 kilo of it. I did google rapeseed wax to see if we have it here. We had, it seems, from one shop with extreme prices. But they have removed it. So no, you can't get rapeseed wax here. If I could get something like that here for a fair price, I would be so shocked that I would fall right to the ground! Yes, it is so bad, we have nothing. I mean litteraly nothing. If we have something, it is 10 times as expensive, so I can't buy it anyway. Just forget to find basic items like fragrance oils, for example. We do have lye very available. But potassium hydroxide for liquide soap can't be found here. No mica either. So, this country is perfect for those who make unscented castile soap, all natural, uncoloured. We do have olive oil at a quite cheap price, and lye is not too expensive, plus the water is clean enough to use instead of distilled water. You will actually have to use tap water here, since you can't find distilled water. But we do have bowls and spatulas, thank God. But I would not be shocked if we didn't.

Yes, the washing up after making soap is a pain. I have still not done the dishes after last time. I put them away to saponify over night, since I read it would be easier to get them clean then. And it really is. But there they are sitting. I have to do them some day.

 

[Andrew]

cocoa, kokum, mango, and illipe are nut butters that are great substitutes for palm oil. kokum in the us is a bit cheaper than cocoa if you buy it from the right supplier. another ingredient you could use would be fully hydrogenated soy or castor oils. these are essentially pure stearic acid and great to balance out the recipe. Plus they are super cheap. other hardening agents i can think of are beesewax (previously mentioned) and sodium lactate.

Unfortunately, all the vegan/palm free hardening oils/butters are expensive. the good thing though is that they all demand a premium if you sell the bar commercially.

 

[Chris_S]

cocoa, kokum, mango, and illipe are nut butters that are great substitutes for palm oil. kokum in the us is a bit cheaper than cocoa if you buy it from the right supplier. another ingredient you could use would be fully hydrogenated soy or castor oils. these are essentially pure stearic acid and great to balance out the recipe. Plus they are super cheap. other hardening agents i can think of are beesewax (previously mentioned) and sodium lactate.

Unfortunately, all the vegan/palm free hardening oils/butters are expensive. the good thing though is that they all demand a premium if you sell the bar commercially.

Most of these things have already been mentioned and discussed. I actually used shea and cocoa butter in the recipes i posted on the first page but given its 4 pages of reading i dont blame you if you didnt read it i dont think i would either. Iv opted for soy because its much much cheaper. Im in the uk so i would guess our prices differ quite alot from item to item cocoa butter here is 15 or 16 pounds per kg my wax cost me 3 quid per kg so its not even close price wise. bulk buying cocoa butter here isnt much cheaper either shea butter for 5kg works out about 35 quid so its cheaper and i do buy 5kg buckets of shea palm and coconut oil. I cant justify paying 50 quid for 5kg of cocoa butter and given we have majorly different selling rules via the eu we have to pay to get recipes assessed before we can legally sell here so thats alot of money to pay out to not get any money back for them plus that also depends on the tarket buyer your selling them too it can only make a premium if they are willing too pay that extra. Still planning to put shea in with the soy though but not buying more cocoa butter