Kyle 3 Pass
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Thank you kindly, DeeAnna! I am also going to experiment with KOH/NaOH mix. I am looking to make a soft Italian soap. Not sticky but pliable enough to madh into a mug or container.
My first shaving soap is a success!
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If you're looking for a suggestion at which to start, you might try 60% KOH, 40% NaOH. The fats and fatty acids also affect consistency as much as the lye proportions, however. Songwind's soap, while sticky at first, dries down to a pliable consistency, even though it's all KOH.
Kyle 3 Pass
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DeeAnna, when you melt the stearic acid before adding it to the lye/oil mixture, how much water do you add to it?
FlybyStardancer
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I've never heard of adding water when melting stearic acid. You treat it like a hard oil.
The 100% KOH never really did get to a point where it was easy to handle, though. It pretty much requires a pot or bowl of some kind.
And yes, the exact amount and type of oils and additives affects everything. You could probably do 100% KOH until you are sure you have the oils and such you want before experimenting with hardness.
Yep, StarDancer is right -- stearic won't mix with water. Stearic is basically like a fat.
You cannot melt it in the microwave, by the way. I recommend a water-bath double boiler. I put a couple of inches of water in a small sauce pan and bring it to a simmer. Measure the stearic into a small glass canning jar (something that's heat proof and heavy) and put the jar in the water. Ideally most of the jar will be submerged in the water, so the glass heats up nicely. Keep the water bath at a bare simmer -- about 180 deg F -- until the stearic melts.
If you start your soap batter about the same time you start melting the stearic, the stearic should be ready by the time you want to add it to the batter. If the glass jar is hot enough overall, most of the stearic will end up in your soap pot when you pour it. If the container isn't hot enough, the stearic solidifies really fast on the container sides, and you might get a bit of a mess to scrape out. It works best for me if I pour all of the stearic into the batter at once -- I don't like to pour a little bit, mix, pour, mix, etc. Mix the stearic into the batter by hand -- the soap will get too stiff too quickly for a stick blender.
You cannot melt it in the microwave, by the way. I recommend a water-bath double boiler. I put a couple of inches of water in a small sauce pan and bring it to a simmer. Measure the stearic into a small glass canning jar (something that's heat proof and heavy) and put the jar in the water. Ideally most of the jar will be submerged in the water, so the glass heats up nicely. Keep the water bath at a bare simmer -- about 180 deg F -- until the stearic melts.
If you start your soap batter about the same time you start melting the stearic, the stearic should be ready by the time you want to add it to the batter. If the glass jar is hot enough overall, most of the stearic will end up in your soap pot when you pour it. If the container isn't hot enough, the stearic solidifies really fast on the container sides, and you might get a bit of a mess to scrape out. It works best for me if I pour all of the stearic into the batter at once -- I don't like to pour a little bit, mix, pour, mix, etc. Mix the stearic into the batter by hand -- the soap will get too stiff too quickly for a stick blender.
I'm new to the forum and soap making, but this thread has me really interested. I also new to wet shaving, but well the whole soap making thing has the chemist in me really interested.
I have some questions about the process. I'm a chemist and have access to high concentration (45%)KOH. Would using a higher concentration KOH yield a harder soap due to less water or does the water evaporate off in the curing process?
I read someone talking about using sodium lactate... what is the typical usage rate to harder a bar up a bit (I realize this will vary some due to how hard you want but a starting range would be great)?
Is this recipe superfatted? If so and you do the two step process as DeeAnna mentioned none of the coconut oil will be left in the superfat portion correct?
I haven't made a soap yet, but I'm going to hopefully today. This shave soap will not be my first, but I'm going to after I feel more comfortable with what's going on in the process.
Thanks for the post Songwind and for all of the followups everyone who has been involved.
InNae
I have some questions about the process. I'm a chemist and have access to high concentration (45%)KOH. Would using a higher concentration KOH yield a harder soap due to less water or does the water evaporate off in the curing process?
I read someone talking about using sodium lactate... what is the typical usage rate to harder a bar up a bit (I realize this will vary some due to how hard you want but a starting range would be great)?
Is this recipe superfatted? If so and you do the two step process as DeeAnna mentioned none of the coconut oil will be left in the superfat portion correct?
I haven't made a soap yet, but I'm going to hopefully today. This shave soap will not be my first, but I'm going to after I feel more comfortable with what's going on in the process.
Thanks for the post Songwind and for all of the followups everyone who has been involved.
InNae
Welcome! I've been making soap for a year and traditional shaving for about two.
Actually, the KOH used by soapers is in the form of flakes or beads, and around 90% pure. So the 45% solution would not be strong enough. Of course, you could do the math and figure out the actual weight of KOH per mL and use that solution. Just be aware that it's not 1:1 with the values given by a lye calculator.
The water does seem to evaporate out during the curing process. I've experimented with a few different lye concentrations and it doesn't seem to make a big difference in the end product if you let it cure. However, I am intentionally aiming for a soft soap, because that's the kind that I like, so I don't give my shave soaps a long cure. I have settled on a 30% solution (by combined weight - I use a mix of NaOH and KOH) when I make my shave soaps.
I hope you enjoy soaping as much as I have. I suggest starting with a simple 1- to 3-oil recipe (castille or bastile are a good choice) for your first try. Hard to mess up, and very useful around the house.
I guess I wasn't too clear with my question, but you did end up answering it in the second part. I understand that I would need to do some math to figure out the amount of the 45% solution that I would need instead of the 90% solid form. You answered my question in the second part which was about the lye concentration more than anything.
I am in the process of making a recipe that I found right now. It's going ok so far, but the whole shaving soap thing really has me most interested.
Thanks for the welcome,
InNae
That's what got me interested at first, two, but now I'm trying mica samplers and watching videos about swirling techniques.
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"...Is this recipe superfatted? If so and you do the two step process as DeeAnna mentioned none of the coconut oil will be left in the superfat portion correct? ..."
Yes, it's superfatted. The saponification reaction is not complete at trace, so it is very likely that part of the superfat IS coconut, not just stearic.
Yes, it's superfatted. The saponification reaction is not complete at trace, so it is very likely that part of the superfat IS coconut, not just stearic.
Okay, I have made the original recipe with KOH numerous times with a couple tweaks (added Shea and SL) and it has been a huge hit. I took a couple samples into a local shave shop and they loved it and want to sell it. I have been able to glop it into a 3" PVC pipe and when cooled put it in the freezer then my husband made the pipe where he connects an air hose and it pops right out and I am able to slice it after a day. However, I also put some in jars and I like that process as it's much easier. I have taken the slices and shrink wrapped them and will sell them as a refill for the jars.
Sounds great. I went back and forth on pucks vs. tubs, myself.
Out of curiosity, was your local shave shop Maggard Razors, by chance?
I knead the paste by hand until it is a smooth, consistent texture and form it into a log shape. Roll the log in parchment paper -- something that lets the soap breathe but keeps it clean. After letting it dry for a week or so, I cut it into pucks. It might not be quite as pretty as putting it into a PVC pipe, but it works.
Kyle 3 Pass
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Hi everyone,
I am pondering whether I want to use a combo of KOH/NaOH or just use KOH and add sodium lactate to get my desired shave soap hardness. If I use KOH only and add Sodium Lactate at 3-5%, will my soap get as hard as a 60/40 or 70/30 of a KOH/NaOH combo? Just curious before I go and buy supplies.
Thanks for any help!
Kyle
I am pondering whether I want to use a combo of KOH/NaOH or just use KOH and add sodium lactate to get my desired shave soap hardness. If I use KOH only and add Sodium Lactate at 3-5%, will my soap get as hard as a 60/40 or 70/30 of a KOH/NaOH combo? Just curious before I go and buy supplies.
Thanks for any help!
Kyle
Lin
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Higher amounts of sodium lactate result in a softer/more flexible Soap and not a harder one. Usually 1-2 % is used for hardening, and 3% will soften. I believe Derpina bubbles used only 2% once though and still got a soft rubbery Soap as a result.
That's what got me interested at first, two, but now I'm trying mica samplers and watching videos about swirling techniques.
Yeah... That may be me too. It's chemistry that I can do at home.
InNae
ocean_soul
Well-Known Member
So I decided to take another crack at this recipe and I cooked up a batch of this soap earlier this week. This time I used beer, added some silk, sodium lactate and clay to the mix. Using beer as my liquid won't cause problems further down the road, will it? I hope not!
Anyhow, I'm fairly sure I didn't I cooked my soap long enough...It passed the zap test but a day after unmolding and slicing up my soap all the bars are lightly covered in soda ash, eeks! I've never had that happen to hot process soaps before so I'm thinking about grating my soap down and cooking it again. I just hope I don't kill the fragrance when I do that. Right now the combination of beer and essential oils seems to have produced a scent that reminds me of an old fashioned ice cream parlor & soda fountain.
Any ideas? Or does it sound like reasonable plan? Next time, I am totally cooking my soap longer!
Anyhow, I'm fairly sure I didn't I cooked my soap long enough...It passed the zap test but a day after unmolding and slicing up my soap all the bars are lightly covered in soda ash, eeks! I've never had that happen to hot process soaps before so I'm thinking about grating my soap down and cooking it again. I just hope I don't kill the fragrance when I do that. Right now the combination of beer and essential oils seems to have produced a scent that reminds me of an old fashioned ice cream parlor & soda fountain.
Any ideas? Or does it sound like reasonable plan? Next time, I am totally cooking my soap longer!
