My first shaving soap is a success!

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... and there are so many conflicting opinions on what makes a good shave soap that it's nice to not waste so much material testing out some of the comments you hear.

I'm curious about what you think the "conflicting opinions" are.

IMO a good soap is a good soap ... after that those that have used good soaps for a long while tend to be a bit more picky about their soaps. There are also a lot of gimmicks (so to speak) that I think some of the commercial manufacturers use to distinguish their products that really don't add much in the way of performance improvements (perhaps this is the source of "conflicting opinions").

Some of this, IMO, is also a function of the 80-20 'law.' If a soap is 80% of the way to goodness, for a lot of folks that's good enough. For the others, they put a lot of energy and focus into smaller improvements to "clean up" that last 20%. For me personally I think I'm evolving to the latter.

From where I sit I think the focus is a function of the intended market. If you're trying to appeal to those seeking a good and basic soap, focus on making something that has tallow/lard, CO, stearic, and is make with KOH ... and perhaps a basic fragrance. If you're trying to appeal to the more discerning user, you need to up your game and add extra glycerine, a moisturizing agent, and perhaps a more refined fragrance. But that's my 2 cents which admittedly isn't worth much.

-Dave
 
How small are your batches?

My scale reads in increments of 5 grams, so when the batch gets small, everything is a bit less precise. My last batch was 8 oz of fats. That's still probably a year's worth of soap, and I'm not sure I should mix up less than that. I have no trouble giving away my other soaps, but no one seems to even know what to do with a shaving soap where they have to create a lather on their own. I might have to start bundling a shaving brush with my give-a-ways.

Pretty much what the EG said. I got a scale that has a resolution of .01g and I don't feel good about pushing the envelope past a 100g batch.
Yeah, I don't know allot of people who shave with with soap and brush. I gave away a couple kits at Xmas but for those who weren't already brush shavers I needed to include a brush. Which got a little spendy as I didn't want to gift supper cheap brushes. And of course the father of one of the people I gifted to told me how great it was after the person I gave the soap and brush to told me how great it was and then left it behind when he returned to the east coast.

I'm curious about what you think the "conflicting opinions" are.

I'll paraphrase here with an examples of things I've read like "IMO olive oil has no place in a shave soap" or "keep your butters and hard oils really low because they kill lather". I whipped up a batch that had a significant OO content and it was really bad. My favorite shave soap so far has a ton of butters in it.

Some of this, IMO, is also a function of the 80-20 'law.' If a soap is 80% of the way to goodness, for a lot of folks that's good enough. For the others, they put a lot of energy and focus into smaller improvements to "clean up" that last 20%. For me personally I think I'm evolving to the latter.

From where I sit I think the focus is a function of the intended market. If you're trying to appeal to those seeking a good and basic soap, focus on making something that has tallow/lard, CO, stearic, and is make with KOH ... and perhaps a basic fragrance. If you're trying to appeal to the more discerning user, you need to up your game and add extra glycerine, a moisturizing agent, and perhaps a more refined fragrance. But that's my 2 cents which admittedly isn't worth much.

-Dave
I'm not sure if you talking about shave soaps specifically, I think I mostly agree with you but I build my shave soaps to be shave soaps and my bath soaps to be bath soaps ect... My best bath bar looks nothing like my best shave soap.
 
I'll paraphrase here with an examples of things I've read like "IMO olive oil has no place in a shave soap" or "keep your butters and hard oils really low because they kill lather". I whipped up a batch that had a significant OO content and it was really bad. My favorite shave soap so far has a ton of butters in it.

Well, I wouldn't call that an "opinion" as much as a fact established through both experience and fact. But ... I get what you're saying.

I'm not sure if you talking about shave soaps specifically, I think I mostly agree with you but I build my shave soaps to be shave soaps and my bath soaps to be bath soaps ect... My best bath bar looks nothing like my best shave soap.

Yes I was thinking of shave soap, but I guess I was trying to nicely say that don't let the "contrasting opinions" define your soap. Good soap is good soap ... some users will value a basic soap that works well, and some expert users out there that want very specific things (and they will like your soap if it meets their requirements). BUT ... there are a lot of folks out there that don't really understand soap and will talk a lot (or even complain) about how your soap needs clay, caffeine, or something else that has little or no impact on the relative goodness of your soap. And "good soap" is pretty simple stuff.

Like I said, my 2 cents worth. YMMV yadda yadda.

-Dave
 
Some of this, IMO, is also a function of the 80-20 'law.' If a soap is 80% of the way to goodness, for a lot of folks that's good enough. For the others, they put a lot of energy and focus into smaller improvements to "clean up" that last 20%. For me personally I think I'm evolving to the latter.

I think that about sums up where I'm at. My last 3 shaving soaps have worked very well, but I'm finding the attempt to improve them, enjoyable. I think it will be baby-steps the rest of the way.
 
I also tried coffee in the soap, smell did not survive the saponification. Added Coffee fragrance was horrific. 4 pounds of soap in the trash....

I really liked the Brazilian Nut Coffee FO from Save On Scents. Nice, smooth coffee flavor with some nuttiness for interest.
 
Ha! Hapless victims! One word I would not use to describe the shaving dudes would be victims! Sly, innovative, curious and maybe even opinionated at times but definitely not victims! :wink:
 
Ha! Hapless victims! One word I would not use to describe the shaving dudes would be victims! Sly, innovative, curious and maybe even opinionated at times but definitely not victims! :wink:
Yes, but among our own there are certain ... risks.:twisted:
 
If anyone is looking for relatively nice inexpensive brushes I get some from shoeboxshaveshop at the dot com. He's got a ridiculous selection of brushes if you are into that, but he's got really inexpensive Omegas that are really great brushes. The tiny (ok like half size midget) ones that are travel brushes are my fave. And they smell amazing!!
 
I have some soy wax shave soap on hand at present. I did run into some hiccups, both in terms of getting the soy wax and in terms of potential for sales; then there's the soaping process, which is a bit different than with straight stearic. I will post some detail later.

So it's been awhile ... would you be interested in sharing the differences between stearic and soy wax? I'm curious.

I think I can get soy wax at the Hobby Lobby nearby (it's where I get my stearic), but I'm not sure I want to spend the time or money on it if it sucks.

-Dave
 
Dave, I'll post something meaningful and hopefully some pics later today. We just moved, so the last couple of weeks have been hectic. You can get soy wax locally, but that's not what I used, so I can't comment on the Hobby Lobby stuff. I will see what I can put together when I'm home from work and the kids are in bed.
 
According to some sources I've found, soy oil is 4% stearic acid, 10% palmitic acid. I suppose the hydrogenation process produces more saturated fats - stearic being one (palmitic, lauric, myristic.) You add the others as well. I would not think that soy wax would ever be a straight replacement for SA. With all the different blends out there for making candles, one would have to source it carefully and likely be out on the skinny branches exploring new territory.
 
ImageUploadedBySoap Making1426072640.568817.jpgthis is how soapcalc sees soywax at 100% of the oils. This must be where they are quoting the numbers from.
Small batch, it's only soap not major surgery. I'm happy learning from my mistakes if it is really interesting I'm happy to mail it out to peoples for a funky soap trade
 
Lauric 0
Myristic 0
Palmitic 11
Stearic 5
Oleic 24
Ricinoleic 0
Linoleic 50
Linolenic 8

This is the fatty acid distribution from my soap calculator spreadsheet. Stearic is 18:0 (18 carbon atoms, 0 double bonds). Oleic is 18:1, linoleic is 18:2, and linolenic is 18:3. All 18 carbon atoms with 1 to 3 double bonds.

Hydrogenation converts double bonds into single bonds so oleic, linoleic, and linolenic all convert to stearic in an ideal world.

If you add up stearic + oleic + linoleic + linolenic => 87%. So theoretically one could end up with about 87% stearic and 11% palmitic if hydrogenating soy oil with this fatty acid profile. That jives with SoapCalc's idea of what soy wax is.

I'm a little doubtful that all soy wax products are that fully hydrogenated, but I'm quite content to be proven wrong.
 
I'm a little doubtful that all soy wax products are that fully hydrogenated, but I'm quite content to be proven wrong.

Certainly possible, even probable.

But ... what is the minimum threshold for conversion of some of the FFAs to stearic such that soy wax becomes solid? IMO that would be the floor for our conversation as well as soapmaking purposes.

-Dave
 
Sorry. I was a bit fried last night but can post some thoughts now. I took pics but don't have them. I have made two batches of soy wax shave soap. In both instances I simply subbed it for stearic in my standard shave soap recipe. I did not use as much glycerin as usual, either, since this is hydrogenated oil and not straight stearic. Naturally the different SAP number altered the amount of lye used. I used the SAP number for fully hydrogenated soy wax from SoapCalc and figured it would be fine since it is barely different to the SAP number for partially hydrogenated.

Purchasing - There are many soy waxes from which to choose. Many must be bought in quantity, however. If you check the MSDS on a given soy wax, it will generally simply say "Hydrogenated Soybean Oil," but some will mention "botanicals." Since the target market is generally candlemakers, the botanicals are generally added, presumably, to alter the melt point or the behavior of the wax when hot. Melt points on soy waxes vary wildly, from around 115F to 170F. Pure stearic is roughly 168F IIRC, so I always aim for the high end of the melt point range if I can. I assume that lower melt point soy wax is less fully hydrogenated, although as I mentioned, the "other botanicals" may affect melt point, too. Either way, the highest melt point waxes generally can't be bought in small quantities. I did find a fully hydrogenated soy wax from a US supplier, but when I inquired about purchasing, I was told the minimum quantity would be 2000 lbs.:shock: So, yeah, maybe a group buy thing there.:p

Aesthetics - The soy waxes I bought are very different to one another. Both are beige in color, as is the resulting soap from each. One has much finer flakes and basically looks like beige stearic. The other has large flakes, almost the size of cereal flakes. The finished soap is beige, a bit tackier in feel than stearic-based soap, almost like a cross between a candle and a shave soap. One of the soaps has a bright sheen to it; it looks - for lack of a better term - waxy.

Process - Melt point is lower, so the time involved is less, which is nice. I'm interested in soy wax so I can avoid palm, but it's a nice fringe benefit if the process is faster. There is no "instant mashed potatoes" like there is with stearic. Trace actually took some time with one of the waxes, maybe two minutes with the stick blender. With the other, trace was very quick. Gel/cook took longer than with straight stearic, too, of course, and in fact the second soap - the one that took less time to trace - took almost an hour to cook. When I watched it react to the lye, I thought it must have a higher stearic content than the first wax, but it sure didn't behave that way during saponification.

Lather/Shave - One of the two soy soaps provides lather that is not far off from straight stearic - thick, slick, and quick to come together. It shaves well, and if I didn't have stearic soap to compare to, I would be perfectly happy with it. However, it is not quite as stable as stearic-based soap lather, perhaps due to whatever unsaturated fats remain in it and/or the botanicals. The second soap is a shade poorer in performance and lather stability. By my second pass the lather was just so-so.

1st soap - small wax particles, slow to trace, moderately slow to gel, looks like a beige stearic soap, lathers very well

2nd soap - giant wax flakes, quick to trace, very slow to gel, looks like a waxy soap-candle hybrid, lathers okay

This is by no means an exhaustive report. I haven't messed with water amounts, haven't tried other waxes, haven't waited to see how the soaps do over time (they are just a few weeks old).

What I like about soy wax - faster melt time, theoretically slightly cheaper, palm-free

What I don't like - unknown level of hydrogenation (in most cases), uncertain of approval for use in soap/cosmetics, producers are not forthcoming about the proprietary makeup of the wax

I will try to add pictures later.
 
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I believe what I have is from NG. It's also white fat flakes but they list as 100% soy with bring to melt at @185. They claim no added any thing and very cheap. We shall see.
 

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