My first attempt at shampoo bars! *NEED HELP!*

[Kiti Williams]

I do have an ingredients list. I was actually hoping someone might be able to help me incorporate the ingredients from my favorite brand. Here they are!

Ingredients: Saponified Coconut Oil*, Hawaiian Sea Salt; Saponified Castor Bean Oil*, Olive Oil, Almond Oil*, Grape Seed Oil*, Raw Cocoa Butter*, Avocado Oil*, and African Shea Butter*; Grapefruit Seed Extract; Hemp Seed Oil*; Neem Seed Oil*; Peppermint Essential Oil*; Rosemary Essential Oil*; Natural Mineral Color*


One book I have states that all shampoo bars must contain Caster Oil. I don't agree with that 100%. I have made a very nice, nondrying shampoo bar with just Olive, Coconut, and Cocoa Butter. My shampoo bars are high in Olive oil to make a good cleaning soap, but it does not condition dry or oily hair. It kinda just gets every hair type clean and manageable.

The first 2 oils are what is mixed with the lye solution, because they are listed as "Saponified" - the rest go in after the soap is made, so it is super fatted with the other oils.

The peppermint is to control dandruff, the rosemary oil is for growth of the hair, Avocado oil adds nutrients for hair growth and helps with limp lusterless hair, Oilve Oil seals and soften the hair, Almond Oil does the same thing as Olive Oil, Cocoa Butter is the same as Shea Butter. The Shea Butter seals the hair shaft, but the other 4 oils I have not experience with.

 

[Dawni]

Obsidian,
How soon should I take the bars out of the mold for curing?

Not @Obsidian but when I CP, which is rarely, and if using individual molds, I take them out the molds anywhere within 10-24 hrs depending on the recipe. Since you didn't need to cut it doesn't matter that they harden enough in the mold, just so you don't dent them or something while handling them.

 

[Obsidian]

Yep, take them out whenever they are good and hard.

 

[SoaperForLife]

I agree. Soap scum is sticky and it doesn't rinse off easily once it forms, so it would be best to avoid it entirely by using very very soft/distilled/rain water if using lye-based soap. A chelator added to the soap would also help

Just for fun I looked at a site that sells a "recommended" cp shampoo bar for dreads. Ingredients are: coconut oil, castor oil, water, glycerin, hemp oil, essential oil blend and tetrasodium glutamate diacetate which would be a chelator/rinsing agent.

 

[DeeAnna]

Too bad it doesn't have any lye in the ingredients list. It might actually be real soap if it did.

 

[Kiti Williams]

Too bad it doesn't have any lye in the ingredients list. It might actually be real soap if it did.

I have never seen lye in the ingredients list for any soaps, mainly as when the soap is ripe (CP) or boiled/cooked off (HP), it no longer is a factor.

Obsidian,
How soon should I take the bars out of the mold for curing?

Normally any where from 24 to 48 hours. {YMMV}

 

[DeeAnna]

I have never seen lye in the ingredients list for any soaps, mainly as when the soap is ripe (CP) or boiled/cooked off (HP), it no longer is a factor.

If the maker didn't want to list sodium hydroxide as an ingredients then the correct ingredients list is "sodium cocoate, sodium castorate, water, glycerin, sodium hempate, essential oil blend and tetrasodium glutamate diacetate" and I would also call out the essential oils by name.

The correct way to do an ingredients list is to name, in order of descending weight, all of the ingredients going INTO the pot, in which case sodium hydroxide is one of the ingredients, OR all of the ingredients that come OUT of the pot, in which case the fat names must be converted into the names of the soaps they form. Can't have it both ways.

 

[linne1gi]

I have never seen lye in the ingredients list for any soaps, mainly as when the soap is ripe (CP) or boiled/cooked off (HP), it no longer is a factor.

I thought the first ingredients were saponified coconut oil and saponified castor oil?

 

[DeeAnna]

See Post 24. That's the post I was responding to -- my reply is right underneath that one.

I think you're looking at Post 21 which does have "saponfied coconut oil" etc. But that name is not right either, if you really want to do a correct ingredients list. The correct name for the soap made from coconut oil is "sodium cocoate", not "saponified coconut oil."

I find it amazing how some people try their darnedest to avoid any mention of "sodium hydroxide" and any other names of ingredients that don't look like ingredients you can find in your kitchen pantry.

 

[linne1gi]

If the maker didn't want to list sodium hydroxide as an ingredients then the correct ingredients list is "sodium cocoate, sodium castorate, water, glycerin, sodium hempate, essential oil blend and tetrasodium glutamate diacetate" and I would also call out the essential oils by name.

The correct way to do an ingredients list is to name, in order of descending weight, all of the ingredients going INTO the pot, in which case sodium hydroxide is one of the ingredients, OR all of the ingredients that come OUT of the pot, in which case the fat names must be converted into the names of the soaps they form. Can't have it both ways.

Yes, I agree. In Marie Gale's book, the correct way is to list the ingredients going into the pot in descending order, because unless you are having your soap tested in a lab, you are not sure of the precise amounts coming out of the pot.

 

[Kiti Williams]

I find it amazing how some people try their darnedest to avoid any mention of "sodium hydroxide" and any other names of ingredients that don't look like ingredients you can find in your kitchen pantry.[/QUOTE]


I agree that the ingredients list should have everything that went into the pot. Many companies want to list their ingredients as some fanciful concoction. I found out what goes into the Dove Sensitive skin bar, I was amazed that they listed $72.00 words to give what was in it, when it was tallow, and a bunch of other normal things! Heaven forbid that they tell you Beef Fat is the main ingredient! Also, there isn't and moisturizing cream in it!

 

[cmzaha]

I will also note as to the ingredient list FDA does not recognize the word "Saponified", it would be as DeeAnna mentions above Sodium Coconate, Sodium Castorate, etc. So the product is mislabeled.

 

[MGM]

Ingredients: Saponified Coconut Oil*, Hawaiian Sea Salt; Saponified Castor Bean Oil*, Olive Oil, Almond Oil*, Grape Seed Oil*, Raw Cocoa Butter*, Avocado Oil*, and African Shea Butter*; Grapefruit Seed Extract; Hemp Seed Oil*; Neem Seed Oil*; Peppermint Essential Oil*; Rosemary Essential Oil*; Natural Mineral Color*

....

The first 2 oils are what is mixed with the lye solution, because they are listed as "Saponified" - the rest go in after the soap is made, so it is super fatted with the other oils.

But how can this be, in CP? How are oils (indeed, 8 of them, plus GSE and 2 EOs) "added" after the soap "is made"?

 

[DeeAnna]

...I found out what goes into the Dove Sensitive skin bar, I was amazed that they listed $72.00 words to give what was in it, when it was tallow, and a bunch of other normal things!...

Commercial makers of soap and non-soap cleansers are required to provide ingredient lists that shows what comes out of the pot -- in other words, they must tell the consumer exactly what is in the bar of soap or cleanser the user is holding in her hand. Soap makers in the EU are also required to do likewise if I recall correctly.

These "out of the pot" chemical names might sound like $72 words to some people, but these chemicals are what is actually in the product ... fats, lye, and some of the other starting ingredients are honestly no longer present.

Soap is permitted to use "what goes into the pot" labeling requirements in the USA, because it is not classified as a cosmetic or drug by US law as long as the maker complies with the rules that define what soap is and doesn't stray into making cosmetic or drug claims.

 

[Kiti Williams]

But how can this be, in CP? How are oils (indeed, 8 of them, plus GSE and 2 EOs) "added" after the soap "is made"?

My guess is this is the super fat oils. I can use up to 8 oz of sent, colorants, and oils in a big batch of soap. Of course my oils are at 50 oz and my lye solution is at a 5 or 6 from my soap calculator.

 

[MGM]

My guess is this is the super fat oils. I can use up to 8 oz of sent, colorants, and oils in a big batch of soap. Of course my oils are at 50 oz and my lye solution is at a 5 or 6 from my soap calculator.

Well sure, but what is the mechanism by which you mix your oils, then tell your lye which ones to saponify and which ones to leave alone? I get how to do it in HP, but this really looks like a CP soap, so this is mystifying to me.

 

[Kiti Williams]

Well sure, but what is the mechanism by which you mix your oils, then tell your lye which ones to saponify and which ones to leave alone? I get how to do it in HP, but this really looks like a CP soap, so this is mystifying to me.

CP is the same as HP, until trace. You just don't use outside heat, let the lye solution do it's job and pour into your mold{s}. I unmold at 24 to 48 hours from pour and then you just let it ripen for a min of 4 weeks. Easy peasy.

 

[MGM]

CP is the same as HP, until trace. You just don't use outside heat, let the lye solution do it's job and pour into your mold{s}. I unmold at 24 to 48 hours from pour and then you just let it ripen for a min of 4 weeks. Easy peasy.

Right, but you said
"The first 2 oils are what is mixed with the lye solution, because they are listed as "Saponified" - the rest go in after the soap is made, so it is super fatted with the other oils."
What do you mean by, "the rest go in after the soap is made"?

 

[cmzaha]

Of course my oils are at 50 oz and my lye solution is at a 5 or 6 from my soap calculator.Of course my oils are at 50 oz and my lye solution is at a 5 or 6 from my soap calculator.

If I added in 8oz miscellaneous oils to my 50 oz batch of oil it would be a leaky mess. If your 5 or 6 means oz of NaOH it is missing 3-4 oz NaOH, depending on superfat.

Trying to shampoo with high superfat will make for gooey yucky hair that dirt loves to cling to. Since the ingredient list starts out incorrectly labeled I would not trust the rest of the label and guess all the oils go in the soap pot together. They could be making a base soap with CO and Castor then rebatching and adding in tiny percentages of all the other oils. Just thinking out loud here....

 

[MGM]

They could be making a base soap with CO and Castor then rebatching and adding in tiny percentages of all the other oils. Just thinking out loud here....

Ooooh rebatching! I hadn't thought of that. That's a good looking rebatch