More Bubbles Please

[Georgeandstella]

Hello, I am a new to soap making. I'm using the following recipe, and it is very creamy and a good texture, but my hubby would like more bubbles... See picture below of lathering (no bubbles).

Can you please give me some suggestions to add more bubbles?

-Should I add 1 tsp sugar at trace (I've read to add it with the lye, but I don't want it to caramelize, as my tallow soap is so beautifully white). Please advise
Recipe
Tallow (homemade): 17.5 oz
Coconut oil 8.5 oz
Olive oil 8.5 oz
Water 9.9 oz
NaOH 4.9 oz

Plus 3 oz EO, and I add in powdered colorants directly to the soap mixture (no added oils).

Thank you, I appreciate any advice

 

[AliOop]

@Georgeandstella I love your colors on that soap!

Sugar is a great way to increase your bubbles; it acts as a solvent to make the bar lather more easily. However, it must be dissolved before adding it to your soap batter, or it will be scratchy in the soap. I would use it at the rate of 1 T per pound of oils (so 3 T for your batch size). Dissolve the sugar in your batch water first, before adding the lye. Plain old white table sugar may darken a bit when you add the lye to the solution, but that should not change the final color of your soap.

You can also separate out some of your batch water and dissolve the sugar in that. Then stick-blend the sugar solution into the oils before making your lye solution and adding it to oils. Just be sure that the weight of the remaining water is equal to or greater than the weight of the lye, since you need at least a 50-50 solution to get all the lye dissolved.

BTW, how long did you let this cure? A high tallow soap needs a good long cure to lather better - probably at least six weeks. Another way to increase bubbles would be to lower your superfat from 5% to 2%. The unsaponified oils can really inhibit lather, and you may find that you like the soap just as much with that lower SF.

Finally, how hard/soft is your water? Adding a chelator can also help with lathering, especially if you have hard or semi-hard water. You can read more about chelators here.

HTH, and let us know how it turns out for you!

 

[dibbles]

@AliOop gave you some good advice, and I agree with everything she said. I take some of my batch liquid and warm it up in the microwave, dissolve my sugar in that (I use 1-2 tsp PPO), and add it back into the total liquid I am using to mix my lye. Then I add the lye to the liquid. Replacing water with aloe juice can also add to the bubbles. Your sugar won't caramelize and the slightly yellow color from the aloe juice doesn't affect the final color of the soap in my experience. Sorbitol is another ingredient that can be added to the water instead of sugar, and it dissolves very easily.

 

[Obsidian]

lower your olive oil by 5% and add in 5% castor.

 

[Georgeandstella]

lower your olive oil by 5% and add in 5% castor.

Hi, thank you for this- to clarify-Do you mean reduce the olive oil by 5% or by 5% from the total oils?
Olive oil is 25% of the oils, or 8.5 ounces.

Should I reduce olive oil to 20% (25%-5%) or by .42 ounces (5%*8.5)?

So then add Castor oil of .42 ounces or 1.725 ounces (5% of total oils).

Thank you, remember how us newbies need direct instructions

 

[dibbles]

Castor is a good addition. I meant to include that in my earlier answer. When you put your recipe into the soap calculator, enter olive oil at 20% and castor at 5% of the total recipe.

 

[dmcgee5034]

Hi there - your DH sounds like mine, @Georgeandstella ! I think I finally have my recipe dialed in with lots of help from the group here. I’m not going to end up saying anything new, but just concurring and weighing in with the group based on what I’ve learned here….

I have converted from ounces to grams, as one note you might consider to be a bit more precise in measurements.

Sugar - I use sorbitol instead of sugar, but did start with sugar so go for what you’ve got. Use it as @AliOop suggested - I dissolve my (1% of oils) sorbitol in twice its weight in distilled water (so for 1000g of oils, I use 10g sorbitol and 20g distilled water - then subtract that 20g water from my liquid weight). Side note, agree on the chelator and I add 10g of Sodium Citrate to that same little container of sorbitol and distilled water so they all dissolve together. I also add my sodium lactate to the container so I’m sure I won’t forget any of my additives.

Aloe Vera Juice - I use AVJ for 100% of my liquid. It’s in the vitamins and laxatives section at the Walmart.

Castor Oil - I always use this at 5% of my oils in my recipe.

ETA - as @AliOop also said, I lowered my superfat to 3%

With these all together, I finally have the bubbles right to get hubby to use my soap - but he’s still not giving up his syndet bar….. yet? One can dream…..

Pretty soap- love the colors you used!

 

[Zing]

I'm here concurring too and to say welcome to the forum. And to say I like your color combo.

Adding 5% castor was a gamechanger for me. The other gamechanger was adding sugar to my lye solution. I too was worried about the color change but it has NO effect on the final color. I don't like a lot of fuss and extra steps so I dissolve it in distilled water before adding lye. It turns a very very light yellow. And my superfat is 2-3%.

And stop the presses, did I just hear @dmcgee5034 's very own husband does not use artisan homemade soap made in his very own home??!! I think some of us need to take him out back and have a talkin' to. I'm headed over -- who's with me?

 

[Mobjack Bay]

I love the colors in your pretty soap. When I put your recipe in the SMF calculator, I come up with 32% for palmitic + stearic, which makes for a hard, long-lasting bar. I agree with all of the suggestions above, especially to add some castor and sugar or sorbitol. You could also drop the tallow to make way for the castor, which would drop the p+s and the creaminess just a little and also help with bubbles.

If you actually used 3 oz of EO, that’s just under 10% EO calculated based on the total fat weight. The usual recommended amounts are in the range of 3-4% based on total fat weight, and for some EOs, safe usage amounts can be much lower. You can learn more about that at EOCalc.com.

 

[kirsten.]

Well done, it looks lovely!
How long has your soap cured so far?
I absolutely concur with adding castor oil for bubbles. Also, I always find my lather improves with time. Your recipe will improve over time, but so will the soap you've already made.
Cheers!

 

[Catscankim]

I cannot add to anything else that anybody has told you thus far. But I wanted to say that I too love the colors in your soap. I have a new inspiration

 

[KDP]

I like to use powdered sugar..disolves much easier/faster. I also like to use vinegar as part of the liquid...to me it seems to help with bubbles. I also like to use sunflower oil which I feels adds to it as well.

 

[Obsidian]

Hi, thank you for this- to clarify-Do you mean reduce the olive oil by 5% or by 5% from the total oils?
Olive oil is 25% of the oils, or 8.5 ounces.

Should I reduce olive oil to 20% (25%-5%) or by .42 ounces (5%*8.5)?

So then add Castor oil of .42 ounces or 1.725 ounces (5% of total oils).

Thank you, remember how us newbies need direct instructions

Reduce olive oil to 20%, when discussing oil amounts, its always a reduction or increase of that oil by percentage.

 

[Georgeandstella]

@Georgeandstella I love your colors on that soap!

Sugar is a great way to increase your bubbles; it acts as a solvent to make the bar lather more easily. However, it must be dissolved before adding it to your soap batter, or it will be scratchy in the soap. I would use it at the rate of 1 T per pound of oils (so 3 T for your batch size). Dissolve the sugar in your batch water first, before adding the lye. Plain old white table sugar may darken a bit when you add the lye to the solution, but that should not change the final color of your soap.

You can also separate out some of your batch water and dissolve the sugar in that. Then stick-blend the sugar solution into the oils before making your lye solution and adding it to oils. Just be sure that the weight of the remaining water is equal to or greater than the weight of the lye, since you need at least a 50-50 solution to get all the lye dissolved.

BTW, how long did you let this cure? A high tallow soap needs a good long cure to lather better - probably at least six weeks. Another way to increase bubbles would be to lower your superfat from 5% to 2%. The unsaponified oils can really inhibit lather, and you may find that you like the soap just as much with that lower SF.

Finally, how hard/soft is your water? Adding a chelator can also help with lathering, especially if you have hard or semi-hard water. You can read more about chelators here.

HTH, and let us know how it turns out for you!

Thank you so much for your insightful and thoughtful advice! I made a batch yesterday, dissolving sugar in the some of the water, and then adding it back to the water. And yes, as a newbie I was impatient, and used it at 2 weeks. I've lowered the superfat to 2%. I use distilled water from Natural Grocers (I think they remove everything from their water). From cleaning up the containers and utensils, there is already a lot of lather

@AliOop gave you some good advice, and I agree with everything she said. I take some of my batch liquid and warm it up in the microwave, dissolve my sugar in that (I use 1-2 tsp PPO), and add it back into the total liquid I am using to mix my lye. Then I add the lye to the liquid. Replacing water with aloe juice can also add to the bubbles. Your sugar won't caramelize and the slightly yellow color from the aloe juice doesn't affect the final color of the soap in my experience. Sorbitol is another ingredient that can be added to the water instead of sugar, and it dissolves very easily.

Hello, Thank you for this. I am looking forward to trying Aloe Juice soon.

Castor is a good addition. I meant to include that in my earlier answer. When you put your recipe into the soap calculator, enter olive oil at 20% and castor at 5% of the total recipe.

Hello, I've done this now, adding the castor oil. Thank you!

Hi there - your DH sounds like mine, @Georgeandstella ! I think I finally have my recipe dialed in with lots of help from the group here. I’m not going to end up saying anything new, but just concurring and weighing in with the group based on what I’ve learned here….

I have converted from ounces to grams, as one note you might consider to be a bit more precise in measurements.

Sugar - I use sorbitol instead of sugar, but did start with sugar so go for what you’ve got. Use it as @AliOop suggested - I dissolve my (1% of oils) sorbitol in twice its weight in distilled water (so for 1000g of oils, I use 10g sorbitol and 20g distilled water - then subtract that 20g water from my liquid weight). Side note, agree on the chelator and I add 10g of Sodium Citrate to that same little container of sorbitol and distilled water so they all dissolve together. I also add my sodium lactate to the container so I’m sure I won’t forget any of my additives.

Aloe Vera Juice - I use AVJ for 100% of my liquid. It’s in the vitamins and laxatives section at the Walmart.

Castor Oil - I always use this at 5% of my oils in my recipe.

ETA - as @AliOop also said, I lowered my superfat to 3%

With these all together, I finally have the bubbles right to get hubby to use my soap - but he’s still not giving up his syndet bar….. yet? One can dream…..

Pretty soap- love the colors you used!

Thank you so much for your sage advice, I've now taken all of the above into my recipe (Aloe Vera in the next batch), my head is spinning with all of the science (and art) of soapmaking

I'm here concurring too and to say welcome to the forum. And to say I like your color combo.

Adding 5% castor was a gamechanger for me. The other gamechanger was adding sugar to my lye solution. I too was worried about the color change but it has NO effect on the final color. I don't like a lot of fuss and extra steps so I dissolve it in distilled water before adding lye. It turns a very very light yellow. And my superfat is 2-3%.

And stop the presses, did I just hear @dmcgee5034 's very own husband does not use artisan homemade soap made in his very own home??!! I think some of us need to take him out back and have a talkin' to. I'm headed over -- who's with me?

Hello, I added the disolved sugar to the water, and no discoloration, even though the lye mixture came to over 180', so happy with that! Thank you for your advice.

I love the colors in your pretty soap. When I put your recipe in the SMF calculator, I come up with 32% for palmitic + stearic, which makes for a hard, long-lasting bar. I agree with all of the suggestions above, especially to add some castor and sugar or sorbitol. You could also drop the tallow to make way for the castor, which would drop the p+s and the creaminess just a little and also help with bubbles.

If you actually used 3 oz of EO, that’s just under 10% EO calculated based on the total fat weight. The usual recommended amounts are in the range of 3-4% based on total fat weight, and for some EOs, safe usage amounts can be much lower. You can learn more about that at EOCalc.com.

Hello, yes, I meant to say 3%, not 3oz of EO Thank you for catching this!

 

[janesathome]

I'm here concurring too and to say welcome to the forum. And to say I like your color combo.

Adding 5% castor was a gamechanger for me. The other gamechanger was adding sugar to my lye solution. I too was worried about the color change but it has NO effect on the final color. I don't like a lot of fuss and extra steps so I dissolve it in distilled water before adding lye. It turns a very very light yellow. And my superfat is 2-3%.

And stop the presses, did I just hear @dmcgee5034 's very own husband does not use artisan homemade soap made in his very own home??!! I think some of us need to take him out back and have a talkin' to. I'm headed over -- who's with me?

“And stop the presses, did I just hear @dmcgee5034 's very own husband does not use artisan homemade soap made in his very own home??!! I think some of us need to take him out back and have a talkin' to. I'm headed over -- who's with me?”
@Zing I suggest you send Mrs Zing over instead. from what I’ve read she’s very helpful and might even be more pleasantly persuasive!