Mixing Essential and Fragrance Oils Together?

[shunt2011]

Just looking at IFRA category 9, there is A @ 20%, B at 40% and C at 40% and the recipe I use calls for 31g which is 3.1% of the oils in the recipe. Does this sound right please?

What essential oils are you using? There are some that can't be used at more than 1-2% but generally 3.1% should be fine for the most commonly used.

 

[Soapstars]

I am deciding which ones to use regularly but I have rosemary, lemongrass, clary sage, bergamot, lavender, tea tree, geranium. I only used 2 teaspoons of the lemongrass in 1200g of soap and it was really strong! How do I know which can only be used at 1-2% though?

If I use 31g of chamomile Eo in my 1kg soap recipe that costs about £60! What do you all do? Is fragrance oil just as good?

 

[shunt2011]

Lemongrass is pretty strong. I use at at 3-4% in 6 lbs of soap. I measure everything by weight in grams. Again you need to check usage rate recommendations for the individual oils. It will also depend if you are getting pure EO's or diluted in a carrier oil. Again, purchasing from reputable companies comes into play. Sorry, I don't use a lot of EO's I prefer FO's in many cases.

 

[WeaversPort]

I am deciding which ones to use regularly but I have rosemary, lemongrass, clary sage, bergamot, lavender, tea tree, geranium. I only used 2 teaspoons of the lemongrass in 1200g of soap and it was really strong! How do I know which can only be used at 1-2% though?

If I use 31g of chamomile Eo in my 1kg soap recipe that costs about £60! What do you all do? Is fragrance oil just as good?

This is pretty much exactly why I use fragrance oils. When dealing with a good vendor it's much easier to at least get a range on the usage rate.

I'd probably go about it like this:

1) identify which ones have the biggest chance of causing skin sensitivities and use the least of those. (e.g. Cinnamon, black pepper, etc.)

2) start testing small sample batches at 1%, 2%, and 3% and note how they react individually. You can use small paper cups and do a 27g pour at a 1% EO usage and use far less essential oil than if you do 1lb. Then you can see which ones accelerate, which ones are strong enough at 1%, which ones discolor, and which ones hold up to the soaping process and 4-8 week cure.

You can do step 2 for your personal blends as well. Then you'll know if geranium and chamomile hold up individually vs together... Things like that.

 

[Soapstars]

Thank you Weaversport. It sounds like a lengthy process and I am like a cat on hot bricks! Can't wait to nail my recipes and start selling to friends : )

I have made about 8kg of soap in different fragrances, oils and EO's over the last 3 months but the more i find out the less simple it all seems:???:

 

[WeaversPort]

Thank you Weaversport. It sounds like a lengthy process and I am like a cat on hot bricks! Can't wait to nail my recipes and start selling to friends : )

I have made about 8kg of soap in different fragrances, oils and EO's over the last 3 months but the more i find out the less simple it all seems:???:

*grins* unfortunately it is a lengthy process. Right now my curing box is almost entirely full of 25g soap samples testing different fragrance oils. I have some going on 8 weeks cure and some on 3 weeks cure. I figure it would suck to sell a bunch of soap and not realize that in two months all the scent had faded. Plus out of the bottle some fragrances smell horrible, but once in soap have become quite pleasant.

Then there is the whole design aspect, if you enjoy doing swirls. Do they discolor? Seize? I have a Flying Fox fragrance from Nurture Soap that I love, but it's a real stinker when it comes to speed. I could barely get the time to finish stirring it into the sample cup. I also have some wonderful vanilla blends that look like caramel fudge once they finish discoloration.

It's kind of like nice wine or whisky. Each different grain or grape blend adds something different to the finished product. Over time you learn what works best.

 

[Soapstars]

Just came across this information on a soap studio website:

"Essential oils are typically added to soap at a rate of .5-1 oz. per pound of oils (or 30-60 grams), but for certain essential oils, such as cinnamon or clove, this usage rate is higher than the recommend usage amount per IFRA."

I think that is wrong as .5 of an oz is not 30g is it. Anyone know what the usual percentage rate is for the normal EO's please? My recipe calls for 31g of fragrance in 1000g of soap so 3.1%. Is that the same whether it is EO or FO please?

Thanks for your help.

 

[Zany_in_CO]

"Essential oils are typically added to soap at a rate of .5-1 oz. per pound of oils (or 30-60 grams), but for certain essential oils, such as cinnamon or clove, this usage rate is higher than the recommend usage amount per IFRA."

With essential oils it's best to follow IFRA guidelines. ETA: Cinnamon & clove are known "heaters" and can play havoc with your soap batch. They are also sensitizers. Use with a light touch. Here's what I do: Mix 1 part Clove Bud EO + 3 parts Cinnamon Bark EO and store it in an amber brown bottle until needed. Then add 1 part of this to a blend.

I think that is wrong as .5 of an oz is not 30g is it.

Correct.

Anyone know what the usual percentage rate is for the normal EO's please?

Unfortunately, there is no "normal" % for EOs. We really need to take good care when using them. That being said, I use MMS (Majestic Mountain Sage) Fragrance Calculator to determine the amount to use. They have reliable use rates for most bath & body applications. Here's a link:

https://www.thesage.com/calcs/FragCalc.html

My recipe calls for 31g of fragrance in 1000g of soap so 3.1%. Is that the same whether it is EO or FO please?

No. With EOs, the fragrance rate varies; with FOs I normally use 0.85 oz PPO and adjust up or down depending on the strength of the scent.

HTH :bunny:​

 

[maxine289]

My question isn't really about whether you can mix EO and FO. It's about the percentage that can be used. I sometimes purchase FO from Lonestar Candle Making and their bottles have the IRFA categories listed, including Category 9. The usage rate is stated as a percentage. My question is, a percentage of what? The total weight of the batch, which would include water/liquid, lye and oils, or the total weight of oils in the recipe? So, for a FO that said Category 9 usage was 11%, and I was making a batch that will weigh 46 oz. (total weight of liquid, oil and lye), would the amount of FO I could use be 11% of 46 oz, which would be 5.06 oz? I probably would not use that much, but based on the Category 9 usage %, I could do so safely. Is this correct? Or should I be calculating the usage percentage differently or based on something else?

 

[jewels621]

It might be best to start a new thread in the fragrance category, but I'll answer here. I base my fragrance on PPO. The IFRA number is the max percentage you can use for it to still be skin safe, but rarely do I ever use more than 5%.....some even less because of the strength. You don't have to use the skin safe percentage rate.....some are 100%! Play around with it a little bit and decide, based on your own nose, how much fragrance your soap needs. Keep good notes!

ETA: There are fragrance calculators out there if you need some kind of reference to start.....I know Brambleberry and The Sage both have them on their websites.

 

[DeeAnna]

To calculate the fragrance weight for lotions and most other products, most people base their calculations on the total batch weight. Most soapers don't do that -- they base their fragrance amounts on just the total oil weight for soap. I suppose it's done that way to be more consistent with the way other additives are used.

I calculate the fragrance weight based on 90% of the total batch weight. I estimate there is 10% loss in bar weight during cure. I want the dosage to be correct in the cured soap, not the soap fresh out of the mold.

If the IRFA max is 11%, then theoretically you could use 11% of the FO based on total batch weight. What is theoretically possible and what's realistically sensible are two different things. I can tell you from personal experience that once you go above 5-6% fragrance, you run a good risk of the soap separating in the mold and/or the fragrance weeping out of the finished soap. My rule of thumb now is if 5% to 6% is not enough scent, I need to find another scent that smells stronger and lasts longer rather than continue to increase the dosage.

I agree with Jewels -- You'll get more responses to your questions if you start a new thread.

 

[Larkfitz64]

Hello,
My husband and I are somewhat new to making CP soap and are really enjoying doing it together. We have several FOs from BB that we love. I would like to make 32oz of CP soap using a combination of Leather FO, Patchouli FO and Lavender 40/42 EO. I am not sure where to begin to combine them. I am thinking .5oz Leather, .5oz Patchouli and .25oz Lavender. None of these are said to work well in CP but since we do it in tandem we are able to move quickly so have not had any issues using them separately. I would love you opinion on what ratios you feel would smell nice. I don't want one to over power the other, therefore loosing the scent of the other(s).

Please give me your thoughts on the ratios i have listed as I do not have a clue about Top Notes, etc.

Thank you,
Lark Fitzgerald
Larksdesignhouse.com

 

[Greggooo]

As Obsidian said, no- it's not strange at all, and yes- they blend fine. My favorite homemade bay rum formula is a mixture of bay racemosa EO and Barbershop 1920's FO. I make other FO/EO blends, too, such as vanilla-mint for example (vanilla FO with spearmint EO).


IrishLass

Would you tell me how to calculate safe usage rates with FO EO blends?

I use sandalwood FO in some of my essential oil blends and it works well for that.

Can you tell how you find safe usage rates for the FO/EO blends?

 

[lsg]

Check the supplier's info. on each ingredient.

 

[lucycat]

I just do a calculation based on each fragrance. If I make a blend of 50% A, 25% B and 25% C I first calculate what a safe amount would be for one batch of only A, B or C. If A has a safe full log amount of 40g then I consider 20g in my blend is safe for that 50% of blend. If B is safe at a full log of 60 then I consider 15g is safe for that scent for 25% of blend and if C is safe at a full log at 80 then 20g I consider safe for C at a 25% blend. If I change up the blend % I would need to recalculate.

 

[Zany_in_CO]

I use SoapCalc to do this. It doesn't matter what 3 oils you put in, just the % of each.

#6: Enter A 50%, B 25%, C 25% in the FAs column.
#2 Enter 60g for the Total amount
Hit "Calculate.

Change 60g to 15g to get the amount of each EO/FO needed for the blend.

 

[lucycat]

I use SoapCalc to do this. It doesn't matter what 3 oils you put in, just the % of each.

#6: Enter A 50%, B 25%, C 25% in the FAs column.
#2 Enter 60g for the Total amount
Hit "Calculate.

Change 60g to 15g to get the amount of each EO/FO needed for the blend.

I don't understand how this would be calculating a maximum safe amount for a blend of FO/EO's. It seems to me it is just calculating the amount of FO based on blend percentage. The question was how to determine a maximum safe amount for a blend. In my example I consider the maximum safe amount as 55 (20+15+20) based on the individual maximum usage rates of each oil and the percent used in the blend. If I blend a FO with IFRA of 3% and a FO with an IFRA of 10%, I need some method to decide that my blend is within maximum usage guidelines, and this is how I approach it.

 

[Zany_in_CO]

I don't understand how this would be calculating a maximum safe amount for a blend of FO/EO's.

It's easy to get confused! That method assumes you already know the safe rates. It's just an easy way to manipulate SoapCalc to calculate the amount of each based on the % used -- which has already been determined before mixing the blend. From there you can upsize or downsize.

FWIW: One of my blends has 12 EO/FO ingredients! Imagine trying to work that out!

HTH

 

[Linda105]

Many people blend essential oils and fragrance oils to achieve a desired scent profile or to create a more cost-effective blend. However, there are a few things to consider when mixing these two types of oils:

Compatibility: Some fragrance oils might not blend harmoniously with certain essential oils due to differences in their chemical composition. It's a good idea to do a small test batch before creating a larger blend to ensure that the oils mix well and create the desired scent.

Scent Intensity: Fragrance oils are often more concentrated and potent in terms of scent compared to essential oils. When blending the two, you might need to adjust the proportions to achieve the desired level of scent intensity.

 

[Zany_in_CO]

Many people blend essential oils and fragrance oils to achieve a desired scent profile or to create a more cost-effective blend.

That's exactly why I do it. Plus, I do believe using an FO in EO blends help "stick" the scent.

Instead of vanilla absolute, I use BB's Vanilla Select FO. It's quite nice and seems to play well with EOs. ETA: Lavender EO and Vanilla FO is tops for calming young children before bedtime. Use a few drops in the bath water, in a sachet or as a room/pillow spray.

Here's 2 others I have that hold up well in soap and other products:

ZANY’S FIR BLEND - Uplifting in Room Spritzers!
2 parts Cedarwood, Virginia EO
3 parts Sandalwood FO
4 parts Fir Needle EO

ZANY’S CIN GIN PATCH - Guys love this in the shower!
1 part Clove + Cinnamon* EO
2 parts Cedarwood VA EO (to round off)
4 parts Patchouli EO (or Sandlewood FO)
8 parts Ginger Essence (Origins Type) FO
*Mix 1 clove bud + 3 cinnamon bark then add 1 part of this to the blend.