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MrsZ

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I was reading a cold process soap tutorial on a website that sells soapmaking products earlier. I would like to get opinions on it, as I feel that it has quite a bit of bad advice and even misinformation. I am curious if it really is as bad of advice as it seems, or I'm just overly sensitive about safety and proper procedures. I've been making soap for about 3 years now, but I of course don't know nearly everything about soaping. I feel like I have the basics down though, and this tutorial doesn't feel right.

Is it ok to post a link to the web page, or would that be considered to be in bad taste?
 
I'd have no problem with you calling out the website here on SMF. But if you can share it anonymously, and then send a contact through the website to suggest corrections, that might put the site owner in a better frame of mind to make corrections.
 
Now, I'm not trying to be nitpicky or just criticize someone's business for fun. That being said, I feel like this is not a good tutorial to follow to learn to make soap. It appears to be aimed at beginner soapmakers, but encourages one to sell their soap from the beginning of the article. I'm not sharing the tutorial in its entirety, only parts that I feel are of interest. Here's the opening lines of the article:

"The instructions below will teach you how to make cold process soap using our innovative process. Our process is different for three main reasons:

  1. Using our formula, your soap is safe to use in 2 days! You will know exactly what the final product weight will be. You can make and sell your soaps faster, knowing what the correct label weight should be, without waiting for the water to evaporate.
  2. We use a 50/50 lye solution. This lye is already dissolved in water. It is safer to use, eliminates toxic fumes and quicker to produce soap using it. Because of using the 50/50 solution, we produce everything at room temperature. No thermometers needed."
I have no problem with the 50/50 lye solution, I know many masterbatch their lye solution. What bugs me is although soap is usually mostly saponified by 2 days after making it, it seems irresponsible to claim that it is safe for use that soon. If I handle my soaps bare-handed 2 days after the pour, I can feel that the soap is harsher than it is after even a solid week of cure time.

The tutorial then goes on to list a recipe to make 4.5 pounds of soap for your first batch. 🤔 It says glass is ok to use for soaping, as well.

One of the directions is to combine Himalayan salt in water (for a harder bar, I know salt does help with that), then add the salt solution to the oils and blend with a stick blender for about 1 minute. Doesn't salt usually go in the lye solution? Why would one blend salt water into the oils for one minute before adding the lye solution?

"
  1. Next, pour in your 50/50 lye solution and mix using an immersion blender until mixed completely (approximately 30-60 seconds). Your mixture will start to thicken (this is trace beginning to happen).
  2. When you reach a light trace, you can write your name into the batter or see the drip indentations in your batter. This is when you are ready to add your kaolin clay, fragrance or essential oil, and other additives to the mixture.
  3. Blend using an immersion blender until thoroughly combined or soap begins to thicken to a pudding-like consistency. This is when you are ready to pour into your mold. Do not wait too long or your soap will be too thick to pour.
  4. Pour into mold and add any swirls or designs to the surface of your soaps.
  5. Leave undisturbed for at least 24 hours then unmold and cut your bars using gloves. Soaps will be safe to use after 48 hours. "
Most of this doesn't seem unreasonable, although the amount of blending is a lot. With my slow moving recipes, if I continue to blend after I reach trace the soap would be far too thick to do much with.

"Curing your cold process soap

Although your soaps are safe to use after 48 hours, they still contain additional water that will evaporate over time to create a denser, harder bar of soap.

Depending on the weather, you will reach your final product weight in 2 to 6 weeks.

This is what we refer to as “curing” your soaps, although most people get this evaporation stage confused with saponification and believe that your bars are not safe to use during this entire process.

Huge myth!

Your soaps are safe to use after 48 hours and saponification is complete, they just haven’t reached their lowest weight yet."


Is saponification ALWAYS complete within 48 hours?

The next section under "Selling Your Cold Process Soap" discusses labeling weights, and how you should use the same recipe each time and learn your finished soap weights to be able to label the soaps right away. That in and of itself makes sense, if we use the same recipes and cut the same size soaps, the weights should be about the same after cure each time. However, saying that waiting 6 weeks to sell your soaps is not "scalable for most soap makers" seems a little off to me.

"This is a game changer as it will help your cash flow, inventory needs, product availability, and ability to say yes to sales opportunities as a small to large soap making business.

Waiting up to 6 weeks to sell after your product has been made is not scalable for most soap makers. Using this labeling tip, you can break through ceilings (or burst the bubble might be more applicable here!) and grow your business."


Does anyone else think this article is a little off, or am I out of line here? It bothers me because I found the products mentioned in the article in a craft store yesterday, and the only instructions with the products is this article. If someone finds the products in the store and decides to use them to learn, (good for them for one thing, soaping is great!) and then has to use the recipe and tutorial here, it feels like it is setting them up for potential problems down the road.

I'm not sure if I should send the company a kind email asking that some things be corrected, or if I should just stay in my own lane and let them be. That's why I wanted to get the opinions of you, SMF friends. 🙃

-rant over, for now!😁 -
 
get rich quick.... Seems logical that how much you put in will determine what you get out. Not the process. At least not the cash cow way it's represented. Generates suspicion for me. Good ask!!
 
Red flags galore.

But I doubt whoever wrote it will listen to anything you say, as it sounds like they are indeed selling a 'get rich quick' business model, moreso than a 'learn how to make great soap' model. I don't think there's any approach to them that wouldn't be taken as busy body-ing.

Perhaps instead you might suggest to the store, if you know them & feel comfortable (that they won't think you're telling them they're bad), a favorite book on making soap that they could also sell.

But they too may not want any input, and we soapers are not the soap police, so.... I personally would stay out of it.
 
Red flags galore.

But I doubt whoever wrote it will listen to anything you say, as it sounds like they are indeed selling a 'get rich quick' business model, moreso than a 'learn how to make great soap' model. I don't think there's any approach to them that wouldn't be taken as busy body-ing.

Perhaps instead you might suggest to the store, if you know them & feel comfortable (that they won't think you're telling them they're bad), a favorite book on making soap that they could also sell.

But they too may not want any input, and we soapers are not the soap police, so.... I personally would stay out of it.
Thank you for your input. :) I like your suggestion of recommending a book to the store, but it is a huge, nationwide chain so I doubt that would happen. I appreciate your advice!
 
Thank you for your input. :) I like your suggestion of recommending a book to the store, but it is a huge, nationwide chain so I doubt that would happen. I appreciate your advice!
For the effort involved in an e-mail.... But I wouldn't hope to make a difference here. Customer Service and Quality Control don't get much investment these days I find. They'll still make their $$

Sadly, I've seen enough like this to start wondering if there aren't some, deliberately intended to set the curious up for failure. Not just the picking.

Keep sharing what you know that works.
 
For the effort involved in an e-mail.... But I wouldn't hope to make a difference here. Customer Service and Quality Control don't get much investment these days I find. They'll still make their $$

Sadly, I've seen enough like this to start wondering if there aren't some, deliberately intended to set the curious up for failure. Not just the picking.

Keep sharing what you know that works.
There are a couple of popular soap gurus (that I know, or knew ), that push the road to riches thing not to set up for failure but because they like the income from their subscribers and only see soapmaking as a way to make money. They got angry when I suggested caution. I quit suggesting.
 
Sadly, I've seen enough like this to start wondering if there aren't some, deliberately intended to set the curious up for failure. Not just the picking.
I certainly hope that's not the case! But there does seem to be plenty of bad advice out there. I'm glad I found this forum at the beginning of my soaping journey. It's been an invaluable resource.

There are a couple of popular soap gurus (that I know, or knew ), that push the road to riches thing not to set up for failure but because they like the income from their subscribers and only see soapmaking as a way to make money. They got angry when I suggested caution. I quit suggesting.
That is sad!
 
There are a couple of popular soap gurus (that I know, or knew ), that push the road to riches thing not to set up for failure but because they like the income from their subscribers and only see soapmaking as a way to make money. They got angry when I suggested caution.
Gotta be careful trying to get someone to understand that they're throwing the stones from inside their own glass house. lol
I quit suggesting.
The optimist in me would usually assume simple greed. Sometimes the failure that the process indicated would result in would lead to lawsuits. Not just, "you must not have done something right, here buy this" gouging. Just too much for all of it to all be accidental.

Apologies If this seems contradictory. I say the QC and CS are lost arts, but don't give up. Maybe don't expect success is a better suggestion. Some people do try to improve. If nobody ever shows them where they're messing up, how can they ever hope to prevent a repeat? Nobody's perfect. Food for though.

Besides I have run into a few diamonds in that ever deepening rough lately. Even if they get overruled, It warms my heart a bit to see they're still out there giving their best. That can carry you for a while :)
 
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I don't get it... Their whole innovation is to use 50/50 lye solution and sell the soaps as soon as they are not dangerous while also saying that it will still need curing time to loose water ? I don't feel like they invented anything. They just advice people to sell before the soap is at its best in order to make room.
I do believe that soap is saponified after 48 hours and if not fully, it will still not melt your skin off. I usually cut my soap without gloves, and I don't notice any problem with my skin. It may be harsh sometimes, but nothing like what lye is. But, selling at this point really sound like selling low quality soap in my opinion...

I myself feel guilty for gifting a soap I made only yesterday for Christmas 😂 and they will be three weeks old (I will see most of my family members on the 29th). I will warn them to refrain from using it for at least 2 weeks after they will get them and I already find it a bit akward. I can't imagine if I was to gift 48 hours old soaps.
 
I don't get it... Their whole innovation is to use 50/50 lye solution and sell the soaps as soon as they are not dangerous while also saying that it will still need curing time to loose water ? I don't feel like they invented anything. They just advice people to sell before the soap is at its best in order to make room.
I do believe that soap is saponified after 48 hours and if not fully, it will still not melt your skin off. I usually cut my soap without gloves, and I don't notice any problem with my skin. It may be harsh sometimes, but nothing like what lye is. But, selling at this point really sound like selling low quality soap in my opinion...

I myself feel guilty for gifting a soap I made only yesterday for Christmas 😂 and they will be three weeks old (I will see most of my family members on the 29th). I will warn them to refrain from using it for at least 2 weeks after they will get them and I already find it a bit akward. I can't imagine if I was to gift 48 hours old soaps.
Am I misunderstanding something? You feel guilty for giving before it ready, but it seems like you consider selling an unfinished product is a good business model?. Would you feel less guilty paying hard earned $$ and telling them to wait?

Apologies If I misread. Dyslexics are teople poo. We don't always catch it when we re-read numerous times.
 
Am I misunderstanding something? You feel guilty for giving before it ready, but it seems like you consider selling an unfinished product is a good business model?. Would you feel less guilty paying hard earned $$ and telling them to wait?

Apologies If I misread. Dyslexics are teople poo. We don't always catch it when we re-read numerous times.
You are misunderstanding, but it may be because english is not my first language 😅. I feel guilty about gifting 3 weeks old soap and so I don't understand how one's can feel good about selling 2 days old soap.
I myself don't sell at all anyway ;)
 
You are misunderstanding, but it may be because english is not my first language 😅. I feel guilty about gifting 3 weeks old soap and so I don't understand how one's can feel good about selling 2 days old soap.
Apologies. Punctuation marks. Tiny, but monstrous! lol
I myself don't sell at all anyway ;)
Same. ;)
I do feel for the people who have to compete with such, practices, in the marketplace. "Not ready" should mean a lower price. I have enough trouble giving something away lol.
 
I don't get it... Their whole innovation is to use 50/50 lye solution and sell the soaps as soon as they are not dangerous while also saying that it will still need curing time to loose water ? I don't feel like they invented anything. They just advice people to sell before the soap is at its best in order to make room.
I do believe that soap is saponified after 48 hours and if not fully, it will still not melt your skin off. I usually cut my soap without gloves, and I don't notice any problem with my skin. It may be harsh sometimes, but nothing like what lye is. But, selling at this point really sound like selling low quality soap in my opinion...

I myself feel guilty for gifting a soap I made only yesterday for Christmas 😂 and they will be three weeks old (I will see most of my family members on the 29th). I will warn them to refrain from using it for at least 2 weeks after they will get them and I already find it a bit akward. I can't imagine if I was to gift 48 hours old soaps.
You can safely use soap as soon as it is saponified. However, it is not its “best self.” It will be softer and not last as long as if you actually allow it to properly cure for 4 weeks. I have, in the past, had to let go of some at 3 weeks but I can do so knowing it is not going to “hurt” anyone! It is not its best but it is usable soap. A lot of chemistry continues as long as soap sits and just becomes better and better. I, personally, do not believe that using a 1:1 ratio of water to lye makes soap usable faster. Maybe I am old-fashioned or off base but I will continue to make my soaps and let them cure at least 4 weeks (99% of the time).
 
Sadly, I am pretty sure that this line of products is created by The Soap Gal, someone I respected from afar before she started promulgating this kind of stuff. Her own business does a huge volume of soap for wholesale, most likely for brands like Dr. Squatch (which doesn't make its own soap within that company).

She posted on YT awhile back about a product line just like this that she was putting out in large craft stores. She has other posts about how she packages her soap quickly because it's going to spend some time on her shelves, then in shipment, then on the seller's shelves - so it almost certainly will have at least four weeks of cure by the time it is used.

What bothers me is that this model doesn't apply to the small wholesalers, who may be delivering directly to one or more fairly local stores - like the small maker/seller in my area does. There is no lag time between leaving her "manufacturing" facility, and reaching the store shelves - unless you count the drive across town, which might be an hour in the very worst of traffic.

Also, it's very disingenuous to say these things:

1. that she's only using a 50-50 lye solution. Her overall lye concentration in each batch is decreased by the water used to dissolve the salt solution;

and

2. that there are "no fumes when one makes a 50-50 lye solution." Her facility makes huge lye masterbatches using ice - again, something that the small, local wholesaler/seller isn't likely to do. So unless someone has seen her other videos, or learned from another source, one would not know that it is the ICE, not the masterbatching process or the 50-50 solution, that eliminates the fumes.

Again, this is very disappointing from someone whose work I otherwise respect.
 
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