Milk Soap for toddler and adult with Eczema?

[JayJay]

This family does not have any known food allergies. Maybe there is an allergy that they don't know about. Or maybe the irritant is something in the the environment that has nothing to do with food. The husband had a reaction to a lavender fabric softener once. When she told me about this, I thought that they may be irritated by the ton of additives that are in commercial products. I just assumed that homemade stuff would be better. But I see that may not be the case.

I was also going to make them some unscented laundry soap with 100%co mixed with washing soda. I have made this for myself already and it stopped my own irritation. I don't have eczema, but I was itchy under my clothes before I switched over to my own laundry soap.

Either way, I don't want to make the situation worse. So I will refrain from "helping" them. LOL.

 

[JayJay]

I'm a newbie too and I have rosacea which has similar issues that those with eczema have. I am so excited to see this thread because I have been wanting to eventually create a facial soap for myself that will cleanse while not stripping all of the oils from my skin and inflaming my rosacea. I really appreciate all the sharing you guys do with your recipe knowledge and knowledge of how certain ingredient affect the skin. If you don't mind, I think I'm going to try out a few of the suggestions here and see if I can't come up with something that might finally help me. *HUGS* to all!

Please do, and let us know how it goes! My next adventure will be facial soap. There is so much to learn isn't there!?!?!

 

[Susie]

***slightly off topic***

As always, I'm confused about the warnings about food allergies when it relates to soap. I have several customers and friends with real, diagnosed food allergies (nuts, Celiac's) who use my soap exclusively and have never worried about a reaction since they are not eating the soap. My soaps contain almond oil and milks. They know what's in the soap and still use it without a problem.

Can someone really explain to me why they warn off about possible food allergens in soaps (honey, milks, nuts, etc). Thanks!

This almost got lost in the bunch of posts.

Most people won't react to the oils used in soaps. Probably 99.5% or more. However, you have that 0.5% chance that they might. And since anyone can become allergic to anything at any time, without warning, you do not want someone's toddler having an allergic reaction to your soap. Also, as the percentage of people developing life threatening allergic reactions to foods is at an all time high, I would err on the side of caution and label everything and let the buyer beware.

The OP is a brand new soaper, and had she been making the soap for herself or her family, I would not have said a single word to the contrary. However, it was for a co-worker's child and hubby. Who have eczema already, so there is a high likelihood of some sort of allergy going on. And, with further information from the OP, it is an undiagnosed allergy. Which is the worst kind, because neither they nor the OP know what the problem is. So, she would be basically shooting in the dark trying to figure out what soap is safe.

 

[Susie]

Please do, and let us know how it goes! My next adventure will be facial soap. There is so much to learn isn't there!?!?!

So much to learn! Every single day I still learn something new about soapmaking. Every. Single. Day. It's wonderful!

 

[Lindy]

As far as allergies go, every ingredient has someone allergic to it which is why proper and complete labeling is just sooooooo important. I'm a bit of a fanatic about labeling because it really is that important.

Steps off "soap" box.

 

[pamielynn]

As far as allergies go, every ingredient has someone allergic to it which is why proper and complete labeling is just sooooooo important. I'm a bit of a fanatic about labeling because it really is that important.

Steps off "soap" box.

I'm not asking about labeling - I agree with proper labeling, of course. But anybody can be allergic to anything. Lots of people claim to have coconut allergies (and I don't doubt them), but no one seems to worry about that - so I just wondered why so many worry about the other ingredients. I am NOT trying to start a fight; I really am curious, that's all.

But we can save it for another discussion I don't really want to hijack this thread - the thought just popped up in my head when I saw the dairy and honey warnings.

 

[Jstar]

Not to derail, but to those who have dairy allergies..has anyone tried coconut milk? I use that in all my soaps now and I love it

 

[Lindy]

JStar that was something I was thinking about as well.

 

[jules92207]

I'm with Jstar and Lindy, since I have tried coconut milk in my soaps I don't use any other "milk". Highly recommend for your experimenting purposes.

 

[Susie]

I'm not asking about labeling - I agree with proper labeling, of course. But anybody can be allergic to anything. Lots of people claim to have coconut allergies (and I don't doubt them), but no one seems to worry about that - so I just wondered why so many worry about the other ingredients. I am NOT trying to start a fight; I really am curious, that's all.

I am not quite sure what you mean there, but let me try to answer this. (If I miss what your question was, please correct me!)

Coconut allergies are part of the whole latex cross reactive list:

http://latexallergyresources.org/cross-reactive-food

As well as cross reactive for other food allergies:

http://www.aaaai.org/ask-the-expert/potential-cross-reactivity-between-peanut-coconut.aspx

So we go back to the whole 99.5% of people won't react to the oils made into soap from things they are allergic to. Why? Because you react to the proteins in the item, not the oil. The vast majority of oils contain none of the proteins. Then you expose what protein may remain in the oil to that whole lye/saponification process, and what little was there gets changed to something the body won't react to.

BUT you still have that 0.5%(or so) percent chance that someone will, in spite of the low chance, have a reaction to the soap. And that reaction could very well be life threatening. Not something I would chance on a co-worker's child.

Silk, milk, oatmeal, and the vast majority of other food type additives all contain proteins from the products. That is why one of the first things we suggest to people who are trying to make soap for their own allergies is not to add anything at first. They need to figure out if they will react to the saponified oils before complicating the process. Then you add ONE new factor like essential oil or color at the time. Let it cure and test it before moving onto another.

 

[JayJay]

I am not quite sure what you mean there, but let me try to answer this. (If I miss what your question was, please correct me!)

Coconut allergies are part of the whole latex cross reactive list:

http://latexallergyresources.org/cross-reactive-food

As well as cross reactive for other food allergies:

http://www.aaaai.org/ask-the-expert/potential-cross-reactivity-between-peanut-coconut.aspx

So we go back to the whole 99.5% of people won't react to the oils made into soap from things they are allergic to. Why? Because you react to the proteins in the item, not the oil. The vast majority of oils contain none of the proteins. Then you expose what protein may remain in the oil to that whole lye/saponification process, and what little was there gets changed to something the body won't react to.

BUT you still have that 0.5%(or so) percent chance that someone will, in spite of the low chance, have a reaction to the soap. And that reaction could very well be life threatening. Not something I would chance on a co-worker's child.

Silk, milk, oatmeal, and the vast majority of other food type additives all contain proteins from the products. That is why one of the first things we suggest to people who are trying to make soap for their own allergies is not to add anything at first. They need to figure out if they will react to the saponified oils before complicating the process. Then you add ONE new factor like essential oil or color at the time. Let it cure and test it before moving onto another.

Okay-- This is one of the things that I was curious about. I know that lye breaks down oil, but doesn't it also break down protein? Isn't it the ingredient in the drain cleaner that melts the hair that is clogging the drain? It is also used in hair relaxers to break down the texture of the hair (I'm not a cosmetologist, so someone correct me if I have misspoken). So would I be okay using milk in my soap with my milk allergy? I should also mention that I don't go into anaphylaxis or anything. All of my symptoms are more like illness than swelling or anything life threatening. I know that allergies can morph over time, and I know that there is always a chance for a reaction. I would use it at my own risk. I guess I want some theoretical hypothesizing.

AND while we are talking about this, let me ask one more question to make sure that one of my assumptions was right. I read somewhere that using milk lowers the pH of the soap, which would make it a milder soap. Is that correct? If it does not work that way, then I wouldn't even waste my time money adding milk.

 

[JayJay]

I'm not asking about labeling - I agree with proper labeling, of course. But anybody can be allergic to anything. Lots of people claim to have coconut allergies (and I don't doubt them), but no one seems to worry about that - so I just wondered why so many worry about the other ingredients. I am NOT trying to start a fight; I really am curious, that's all.

But we can save it for another discussion I don't really want to hijack this thread - the thought just popped up in my head when I saw the dairy and honey warnings.

Hey I am the OP, moderators may disagree , but IMO this is not a hijack. It is totally relevant to allergies, eczema, and what is harmful vs helpful vs insignificant.

I am a total nerd so the debate helps expand my understanding.

 

[JayJay]

Not to derail, but to those who have dairy allergies..has anyone tried coconut milk? I use that in all my soaps now and I love it

I have used before.... in my first bar, and it was kind of an accident. My mix got too dry (hot process) and I added coconut milk to add moisture, simply because I love using it for cooking and had some on hand. I can't really say how it helped or hurt the soap because there were so many other things "wrong" with that batch that there are too many variables to say. It is my husband's favorite soap so far. I find it too cleansing, but that is because there was too much CO used.

Question -- What do you love about coconut milk in your soap? Does it lower the ph, make it creamy, help lather? People like using milk (from what I understand) because of the sugar and the lactic acid. What are the benefits of using coconut milk?

 

[Susie]

Milk will not significantly lower the pH of your soap. You probably need to be reading this thread if you are even worried about pH in soap:

http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?p=498945#post498945

Lye will change/break some of the proteins. Not all. Which is fine for you to take a risk by making your own soap for your own use. It is on you if you have a reaction. And there is a difference between a true allergy and an intolerance for other reasons. While I don't doubt that you know what you have, other people are not so specific when telling you what they are "allergic" to.

I have made soap with milks, and the same soaps without milks. I was not impressed with adding the milks. Your results could be entirely different. You may want to do some blind tests with willing subjects(aka family) to see whether they can tell the difference of the soap with milk, and the soap without. Mine could not tell. That was the end of me adding milk for our personal use.

And I think this is not a hijack, either. It is entirely on the subject of allergies/eczema.

 

[Obsidian]

Last year a member did a test with milk soap vs non milk. I was one of the testers and honestly, I saw absolutely no difference in the milk soap. The lather, creaminess and skin feel was the same with both bars. I've tried a few other soaps with milk and nothing stands out as being special.
Coconut milk on the other hand, makes a difference, at least to me. It give a creamier, more luxuriant lather and it doesn't discolor or smell icky like animal milk can.

 

[Lindy]

I must be strange but I do see a difference between my goat milk soap and my non-milk soap. I absolutely love milk soaps including coconut milk...

I think the most luxurious bar I ever made had GM, Half & Half Cream, Buttermilk, Coconut Milk, & Yogurt in it. It was a challenge soap on another forum and it was amazing.... People with super-sensitive skin really liked it.

 

[Chefmom]

One of the downfalls with eczema is the fact that it is different with each person. What works for me doesn't necessarily work for another person.

I developed eczema on my right hand that covered my palm and between my fingers and around to the top of my hand when I was 20. In the beginning it would flair up and then seem to almost go away....but it always returned. I called it my stress hand for awhile because stress made it burn and itch worse than anything I have ever experienced.

Jump forward 20 years, it got worse and worse to the point that it never went away...it was bad and then worse and then less than worse, but horrid just the same. At the worst cracks developed that were 1/4-inch deep and the skin would flake and bleed and it was painful to just use my hand for anything. As a cake designer/baker I ended up wearing gloves all the time, and that just made my hands sweat and made it all worse.

In those 20 years I dropped every chemical cleaning agent and went all natural for everything. I sourced every cream, lotion, over the counter and prescription. Steroid cream only took the edge off the itchiness, but never ended it...

My first step in the right direction came from using the homemade soap my aunt made. Instead of lubbing up with lotion after every time I washed my hands, they felt softer. The eczema was still there, but it was easier to live with. I used her soap for a couple of years before finally making my own. My breakthough didn't come until I finally started learning about herbalism.

Many simple healing herbs were weeds growing in my yard. Only after I started picking these herbs and schmearing them onto my hand and did it several times a day for weeks did I begin to see improvement. It took the entire summer, and I also infused these herbs into oil and made a balm to get through the winter. It took about 7-9 months total for my hand to look completely normal, no more red itchy splitting skin that burned constantly.

I now make infused oils for my soaps, and for hand salves. In my experience a good soap helped my skin condition but it didn't heal it. Once I was actually healed, and my skin had elasticity again, then soap alone helped keep it from returning. I have never had it flair up again. In the deep winter I might see a small patch of dry on the base of my palm and I immediately break out the infused oils for a day or so and it is gone again. I use a homemade salve and an occasional lotion, depending on how much work I'm doing and how I feel, but my days of never being an arms reach from the lotion bottle are gone.

Getting checked out by a doctor is always a good thing. The first thing they check for is liver issues, many skin conditions are signs of liver malfunction. Also they usually only prescribe steroid creams, which can't be used long term....and never helped me.

The very first thing I would recommend and the simplest is to infuse chamomile tea bags in almond or avocado oil in a gentle simmering water bath for about 3 hours. Cool, remove the tea bags, and store in the refrigerator. Remove a small amount each day and warm to room temp and schmear on the inflamed skin. Chamomile is a gentle healing herb and the oil is absorbed in the skin. If you have access to calendula, burdock leaf (spring harvest is best), plantain leaf (narrow leaf or regular), yarrow leaf or flowers and comfrey by all means use any of them or all of them.

 

[Dahila]

Chefmom have you ever infused stinging nettle? It is very healing especially for allergies, and eczema is a kind of allergy. I use infused oils in all my body butters. I do not have eczema but I suffered with atopic dermatitis from the moment I was born; till I started to make my cosmetics and soap ) Soap will not heal eczema, but gentle soap will not irritate skin
Soap scum or not soap scum , I would not go back to commercial soaps as long as I am able to make my own

 

[Chefmom]

Chefmom have you ever infused stinging nettle? It is very healing especially for allergies, and eczema is a kind of allergy. I use infused oils in all my body butters. I do not have eczema but I suffered with atopic dermatitis from the moment I was born; till I started to make my cosmetics and soap ) Soap will not heal eczema, but gentle soap will not irritate skin
Soap scum or not soap scum , I would not go back to commercial soaps as long as I am able to make my own

I have not used stinging nettle...yet. It wasn't something that I could source myself...meaning it didn't grow wild, and I really didn't want to infuse my garden with a known noxious weed that is difficult to deal with. I did recently find nettle tea bags in the natural store, so that is on my list to give a go to soon.
http://www.soapmakingforum.com//www.pinterest.com/pin/create/extension/

 

[Dahila]

chefmom some suppliers carry Stinging Nettle leaf , which is much better than the tea