Matcha Tea soap

[Mobjack Bay]

It is! Now I'm curious what makes it stay green while other colorants turn brown

I have one theory (well, possibly more than one theory, see below) that I intended to test, but never did. When I opened the bag of tea powder it was bright green. I closed it up tightly, but it still darkened a wee bit over time (from early June to June 22 when I posted the pic of the tea package above). Since then I’ve been storing it in the freezer and the color hasn’t changed much if at all. The darkening made me wonder if the unopened bag had nitrogen gas added, like they do with potato chips sold in the US (the dry crispy kind, not what we call French fries; see this link about gas in the bags). If it was packaged that way, maybe that made a difference? Also, that lard, OO, CO and castor soap was made in individual cavity molds and not gelled. I probably started at RT, but it’s not in my notes . The bars sat out on the counter for about 6 hours until they firmed up. According to my notes, I then covered them, likely with plastic wrap. I’m also remembering that at some point I thought recipe or technique made a difference, but I haven’t worked that out. In late June, I used the remaining oil and a bit of the powder in the soap I stamped with the ammonite, here. My notes say the infused powder looked darker compared with when it was fresh. That soap batch also had a small bit of green clay added as a backup for the color in case the tea green faded. The recipe used OO, Shea, cocoa butter, CO, AVO and castor. I started warm (115F) due to the butters and it’s likely that the soap gelled. The soap stayed green for a few months, but the green was definitely a lot darker than in the soap made with the fresh powder infusion. I have one bar of the OO butter soap in the shower that still looks a bit green and one in my soap archive that looks brown on the outside. In early July, about 3 weeks after making the bright green soap in individual molds, I used the remaining oil soaked powder from the bottom of the infusion jar to make a soap with unrefined hemp oil. The powder still looked very green. That batch was made in a loaf mold and allowed to do its thing on the counter on a rack, fo air circulation. Likely soaped at RT, but again not in my notes. I don’t think it gelled. My notes say the green color was bright when I cut the loaf at 24 hrs, but then turned brown over the next 24 hours.

This all leaves me with more questions than answers! Was the browning due to the aging of the powder? Will I get bright green again if I use a freshly opened bag of tea? Did using a loaf mold or hemp oil change the results? Why did the color of the batch made with hemp oil change over 24 hours? Should I have left the soap it in the loaf mold longer? I bought another bag of tea powder some months ago, but never got around to trying it fresh again. I am not a very disciplined experimentalist when it comes to soap making , but maybe all this delving into the mysteries of green colorants has me inspired to give it a go again. Will update if I do...

ETA a few details and for clarity.

 

[szaza]

Hmmm... Interesting!!
I think nitrogen is added to a lot of products while packaging so it would make sense it could be added to matcha as well.. I guess that would mean oxigen exposure is the likely culprit for darkening of your matcha powder. I used very old (3-4 years since opening of the package) matcha powder and still managed to get green soap once I made a cold infusion and made sure not to add any powder to the soap (it's still green at 4 months). This makes me think ageing of the matcha by oxygen exposure is probably not the culprit for browning, rather addition of powder to the soap. There must be some component of the powder that makes the soap turn brown but isn't oil soluble. I did notice an effect of temperature/gelling on the speed and degree of browning when I did add powder to my soap (though even the ungelled soap turned brown within 12hours, so browning came rather quickly) I didn't gel my cold infusion soap for fear of it turning brown but now I'm curious if it actually would! I still have some left, maybe I should do a gelled/ungelled comparison (once I buy a new precision scale)
I also wonder if the color of the soap would be different if I used an infusion made from freshly opened matcha tea.
I was intrigued by the idea of oxygen potentially having an effect on browning, so I looked at the soaps from the light/dark and air/no air experiment. The most browning colorant over time during cure was moringa, which barely has a trace of green left by now. I looked at the soaps that were kept in the dark and both air exposed and airtight stored moringa pieces seemed to be equally brown, so oxygen is making its way to the back of my list of possible culprits for browning of green soaps. I might do a cold infusion of moringa to see if it turns brown as well, or if it stays green and fades like matcha infusion seems to do.
So many new things on my soapy to do list and the year barely started!!
I hope this post helped a bit.. I also still mainly have questions without answers.

 

[Mobjack Bay]

@szaza wrote: “There must be some component of the powder that makes the soap turn brown but isn't oil soluble.”
That’s a great idea to test. Although some suspended powder went into my original bright green soap, I don’t think it was much. So... my soaps got browner as the percentage of powder went up from a little to nearly 100%. The age of the infusion/air exposure also increased, but let’s ignore that for now. I think the easiest way to test your idea would be to make batter with a high percentage of infused oil (no powder) and then vary how much oil-infused powder is included in each bar. Does that sound right to you? If I did the experiment with the new and old powder it would some shed light on my “fresh out of the bag” idea. It would be a bonus if it turned out that the best way to get that special shade of brown I’ve been searching for is by using matcha powder .

 

[Kosmerta]

The soap was made using a (ETA: oops, this is wrong...”vegan, palm-based”, corrected to 60% lard recipe and very finely ground Matcha tea powder that was bright green coming out of the bag. Fading has been minimal since I made it on June 9th, but I am keeping it in the dark. The FO is Green Tea from MMS. After all of the concerns I had about using FOs, I have to admit that this scent is wonderful.

View attachment 39861 View attachment 39862

They're so beautiful

 

[Mobjack Bay]

Here’s another soap made with Matcha tea infused OO (July 2019), with one of the original photos and one taken today. The green has gone olive, but I think it’s perfectly acceptable for a soap made with a natural colorant. I double underlined “infusion” in my notes, so I don’t think this one had any tea powder. Maybe I was suspicious after having made the hemp oil and matcha powder soap a few days earlier. An interesting thing is that the top “sky” layer has a lot of TD in it. It wasn’t enough to mask the green at the beginning, but that layer is very white now.

 

[StormyK]

@Mobjack Bay - That is a Beautiful soap: both "before" and "after". I love it!

 

[Mobjack Bay]

Here’s a wet soap shot of a batch I made today using the oil from a deeply-colored infusion of matcha tea powder. The powder is from the bag I bought last summer, which has been stored in the freezer for most of the time. I mixed 1 oz of tea powder with 10 oz of olive olive on Monday (Jan 13th) and left it to sit at room temperature. I did shake it occasionally, with the last shake on Thursday morning. That allowed the powder to settle to the bottom before I used the oil from the top half of the jar today. The soap is made with soy wax, RBO, CO, Shea and the matcha infused OO at 20%. Key finding - The soap stayed green through the gel phase, which is consistent with @szaza hypothesis , above. I can’t wait to cut it tomorrow. Note: I added a small amount of green clay to half of the batter (the right side in the photo) so the soap would still be interesting if the color went brownish. I wrote on the mold because I couldn’t tell the two sides apart after I poured.

 

[szaza]

Nice green color! I'm curious to see the cut!

 

[szaza]

I might do a cold infusion of moringa to see if it turns brown as well, or if it stays green and fades like matcha infusion seems to do.

I just realized that my moringa tincture soaps (moringa infused in alcohol, no powder in the soap) are still green after 5+ months, while my other moringa soaps (added at trace or to lye water) turned brown before 4 months. Looking back at the 4 month pictures of these soaps I also think the moringa in lye water turned brown more quickly than the one added at trace, but for now that's just speculation. I have started cold infusions of matcha, moringa, spirulina and alfalfa, so in a month or 2 I'll be able to make some soap with them (and in 6-7 months we'll know wheter they turn brown or white)

 

[Mobjack Bay]

@ Szaza I guess we’ll figure this all out sooner or later! Did you post a pic of the green moringa soap yet? I’m behind on my reading...

Here are some “green” soaps I made with matcha in January, including a cut of the one in post #27. It’s the middle soap in the photo. The one to the right is a real puzzler. It was made with a newish, freshly opened bag of tea powder. So much for the nitrogen in the bag theory of color preservation. One side has green clay powder added, as does the soap in the middle. I think I’ve oriented them both with clay side on the left. I thought it would be really obvious which side is which, but it’s not for the middle soap and I didn’t mark them so I’m not 100% sure. I made the infusions for the soaps at the same time and the same way, but the soaps were made on consecutive days. I’m really surprised by how pale the soap on the right is. It looks half faded already. The “new tea” infusion looked a bit lighter than the other one, but not all that different. Now the question - did both soaps gel? The one on the right almost looks like it is not gelled all the way to the edge. I’m not sure about the one in the middle. The little bit of ungelled soap for the middle loaf is a little brighter, but overall similar in color.

The soap on the left is made with the same “old tea” oil I used above, but with some of the powder haphazardly swirled up off the bottom of the jar as I poured the oil. I was aiming for just a tad . Look how brown it is! It was that color on the cut. It’s nice soap, but I was seriously disappointed that it turned so dark when I was aiming for olive. The soap definitely gelled and overheated a bit as evidenced by the heat rash on the side. The color of the ungelled piece in front is close to what I was aiming for. And, to keep us going in our search for answers, the addition of powder with the oil didn’t keep me from getting olive green in that itty bit piece of soap.

 

[szaza]

Hmmm so the infusion of newly opened matcha is lighter than the infusion of older matcha and gel makes the soap a bit darker (or if powder added browner), though an olive green is feasable with ungelled soap from an infusion+powder, which means adding matcha powder to soap doesn't instantly mean brown soap.. is that a correct summary? It's getting late here and my brain is slowing down

Here's the update with a picture comparison of moringa soaps

 

[Mobjack Bay]

You got it! The only thing I would add for those who haven’t read every word of this thread is that the “old tea” also made bright green soap when it was new. So the difference may be in the batches of tea powder or possibly I inadvertently did something different between the two batches.

That’s a pretty green in the moringa soap. I haven’t tried infusing green into anything except oil. (As I tell myself to put that idea on the shelf so I have time to try the hp soap...)

 

[Todd Ziegler]

Simple, tranquil and beautiful!

 

[Mobjack Bay]

Simple, tranquil and beautiful!

That’s exactly how I feel about soaps made with this colorant. Unfortunately, natural greens are notorious for fading. I have these curing in the dark and will be very happy if I can get the green color to hold for 4-6 months. Only time will tell!

 

[Todd Ziegler]

That’s exactly how I feel about soaps made with this colorant. Unfortunately, natural greens are notorious for fading. I have these curing in the dark and will be very happy if I can get the green color to hold for 4-6 months. Only time will tell!

That is the approach that I am taking. I am doing a more utility style with my soaps but that doesn't mean we can't be a little whimsical every now and then. I make a lot of other cosmetics and that is the way I made them. I'm calling my soap line
"No.Five" because Iaam only using 5 oils and "No.Five plus" for the ones with additives like clay etc.

 

[Mobjack Bay]

Here’s a 5-6 weeks update on the matcha soaps from last month. It’s so hard to capture the colors the way they look to me. Compare the right soap in top top photo (diffuse natural + artificial light) with the second photo taken with bright daylight and on a white background. All of the soaps have faded, as expected, and the one on the left definitely looks more brown today. For the center soap and the one on the right, there’s green French clay in the left half of each soap (oops, on the right hand side in the bottom photo). I’m storing the soaps in a box in the dark.

 

[szaza]

Thanks for the update! Lighting is soooo difficult to get right or even just the same in 2 pictures. I still love the color of the middle soap. How's the olive holding up? It looks a bit brown in the picture, but that could be the lighting. I'm crossing my fingers hoping it's still olive irl

 

[Mobjack Bay]

Thanks for the update! Lighting is soooo difficult to get right or even just the same in 2 pictures. I still love the color of the middle soap. How's the olive holding up? It looks a bit brown in the picture, but that could be the lighting. I'm crossing my fingers hoping it's still olive irl

It does look a bit more olive than it does in the photo, but not quite as olive as it did at the beginning. I definitely want to try that strong infusion/powder mix again soon without gelling because it would be a really nice color for a fall soap if it holds up. I also need to try some nettle I bought.

 

[Mobjack Bay]

It's the 3-month mark for my latest round of green soaps made with matcha tea. They've been stored in the dark and don't look much different from the last photo, except that the darkest one seems to be a bit greener to my eye. I'm packing up soap to give to friends and really like this particular trio as a set.

 

[Mobjack Bay]

I'm cleaning up my soap room today and came across another soap from last summer that has matcha, spirulina, annatto, madder, paprika and indigo colorants. The greens have faded, but I still like them. The indigo was very pale from the beginning. The soap was made in July 2019, so 10 months ago, and has been stored in a box in the dark.

July 2019 - the colors are very bright.



May 2020 - The indigo sky has a pink hue to it, but less so than it appears in the photo. The cloud has clay and possibly some TD (my notes are unclear). The color in the lower green layers is from matcha and spirulina infusions, mixed except for the palest layer, above the red, which is just matcha infusion. The upper blue-green layer had spirulina powder added. The red layer was colored with madder tea, madder powder, some paprika powder and some annatto oil infusion.