Maple sugar sand

[Servant4Christ]

Has anyone used this in soap? Google didn't give me much in the way of useful information. How much should I use? And would you use this in place of fine pumice, or in addition to pumice? I plan on using it in a mechanic soap for dh.

 

[Whillow]

@Servant4Christ I don't even know what that is, although sounds tasty, lol. However, I would worry it would add too much exfoliation along with the pumice.

 

[Servant4Christ]

It's also known as maple nitre or maple silt. It's what gets filtered out of maple syrup after it's been boiled down from sap. I've been saving the sugar sand from our maple syrup this year. I've rinsed, filtered, dried, and powdered mine. It would be nice to find a way to use it in soap.

 

[Whillow]

Oh that looks like it is very smooth and silky. Almost like a kaolin clay. I thought it sounded more coarse.

 

[MellonFriend]

If you have enough of it, I'd try it in a test batch alone first to see how much grit it contributes to the soap. I'd try it at 1 teaspoon-1 tablespoon PPO, depending on how scrubby you think it's going to be. If it's more scrubby like pumice, use less, but if it's more like a clay, you can go up to that tablespoon amount.

 

[dibbles]

Like the others said, it looks more like clay than pumice to me. I agree, do a small test batch and see how it feels. You could even split the small batch in half and test different amounts of the maple sand. What a cool ingredient!

 

[AliOop]

Agreed, this is very cool! If any starch or sugar remains in the product, it will increase your bubbles. Please keep us posted on how it turns out!

 

[Servant4Christ]

I'm guessing this still has a bit of the maple in it that will act like syrup, honey, or sugar in my soap. It isn't as soft as clay, but similar feel to the pumice stone I bought recently and ground really fine in my coffee grinder. I have about a pint saved so far. I might make a loaf of regular soap and make a little extra so I can add some to just enough batter to pour 1 single cavity bar and see what the results are. I need to get a handle on the grit factor before making more.

 

[Blufuz]

does it dissolve in water? Maybe that’s what will happen to it anyway unless you mix it in really late?

 

[Servant4Christ]

does it dissolve in water? Maybe that’s what will happen to it anyway unless you mix it in really late?

No. Maple syrup is water soluble and the sugar sand sinks to the bottom after a few minutes, same in water. I will likely mix a little bit into some of the oils and then add this to the main batter at trace and stir it in before pouring into my mold.

 

[Kcryss]

Wow, that looks very cool and I imagine it would make a great scrubby soap.
I would happily volunteer to test some out for you in a batch of soap!

 

[Servant4Christ]

So, I did a quick test last night. I put water in one container and canola oil in another, then added a little sugar sand to both and gave them a good thorough shake to disperse. Disperses fast in water and then sinks to the bottom pretty quickly. Took longer to disperse in oil, but stayed dispersed and suspended much longer before eventually sinking as well. Based on this, I'm considering just stick blending it into the oils before adding the lye solution. In theory, as long as I take the batter to a decent medium trace, the sand shouldn't have enough time to sink before it saponifies. The other option is still to disperse in part of the oils and add and sb it in after emulsification but that makes me wonder if I'll accidentally over sb. I'm going to check YT to see how pumice is incorporated and go that way.

 

[Zany_in_CO]

I put water in one container and canola oil in another, then added a little sugar sand to both and gave them a good thorough shake to disperse. Disperses fast in water and then sinks to the bottom pretty quickly. Took longer to disperse in oil, but stayed dispersed and suspended much longer before eventually sinking as well.

To me, because the "sand" comes from maple sugar sap, I'm wondering if it might be a resin. The powered rosin I use in my Flaxseed & Rosin Shampoo looks just like that picture. I first melt it with coconut oil to around 180°F or so; pour into individual round cavity molds; pop out when solid and store in the freezer.

To experiment, I would try melting it (carefullyl) in a 1-cup Pyrex, lightly covered, on HIGH for 45 seconds or so with a hard oil like coconut, lard, tallow, palm, etc. Repeat if necessary to completely melt it. Let rest for a minute or two before stirring and taking the temperature.

1 tablespoon (3 tsp.) hard oil + 1 teaspoon of sand = 3:1 ratio.

 

[Servant4Christ]

Nope. If this melted it would be syrup rather than strained out of the syrup! Maple sugar sand is actually minerals from the sap. Maple syrup gets strained to remove the nitre (sugar sand) and bottled at around 220°F.

 

[Zing]

Fascinating! Learn something new every day! Never heard of this. In your test batches, don't use pumice so that you can see what your maple does. I also volunteer myself to test your bars. You know me, I just give and give.

 

[Servant4Christ]

Fascinating! Learn something new every day! Never heard of this. In your test batches, don't use pumice so that you can see what your maple does. I also volunteer myself to test your bars. You know me, I just give and give.

If I manage to create something worthwhile, I'll be sure to let you know.

 

[Servant4Christ]

@Zing @AliOop I know you two have experience with @earlene 's blacksmith soap recipe so I have questions that hopefully you (or someone else) can answer.
Is the honey just for increasing lather? If so, could I sub with the same amount of real maple syrup?
Also, is the KOH/dual lye necessary to get the cleaning/degreasing power or is that just about increasing the lather, too?

 

[AliOop]

@Zing @AliOop I know you two have experience with @earlene 's blacksmith soap recipe so I have questions that hopefully you (or someone else) can answer.
Is the honey just for increasing lather? If so, could I sub with the same amount of real maple syrup?
Also, is the KOH/dual lye necessary to get the cleaning/degreasing power or is that just about increasing the lather, too?

Yes, the honey is for increasing lather, and yes, you can use real maple syrup. I find that maple syrup (and molasses, for that matter) are both worse heaters than even honey. Adding them the way you would add honey - thinned in a bit of warm water, and soaping cool - is usually best.

I would assume that the dual lye was also to assist with lathering, but I haven't tried it with Earlene's recipe. I use my own oil blend with just NaOh, and then follow her instructions for adding the borax and the pumice to that. It's a wonderful soap; our mechanic loves it!

 

[Servant4Christ]

Yes, the honey is for increasing lather, and yes, you can use real maple syrup. I find that maple syrup (and molasses, for that matter) are both worse heaters than even honey. Adding them the way you would add honey - thinned in a bit of warm water, and soaping cool - is usually best.

I would assume that the dual lye was also to assist with lathering, but I haven't tried it with Earlene's recipe. I use my own oil blend with just NaOh, and then follow her instructions for adding the borax and the pumice to that. It's a wonderful soap; our mechanic loves it!

Oil blend? Please do enlighten me.
So glad to know I can skip the dual lye and honey. Maybe I'll use sap as a water replacement and skip the added sugar altogether for a first attempt.
Did you add any citrus? I'm curious if it really adds anything to the degreasing value or if the borax is enough.

 

[AliOop]

My typical MB oil blend varies depending on what I have around, but is usually something like:

60% lard or lard-tallow blend
20% CO or CO+PKO blend
25% liquid oil (avocado, OO, RBO, or blend)
5% castor oil

I forgot, I did add ~2% d-limonene, I think? Not at home and can't check my note. It makes the soap smell great and is also a degreaser. You can try a citrus EO blend and probably accomplish something similar. Let us know how it turns out for you!