Making sure I understand this right...

[stateline]

Hi there,

I've been playing around on some calculators(MMS and SoapCalc) with a few recipes I found. I want to make sure I am understanding how to use the lye calculator.

The first recipe(it's from a goat forum I am on):
4 oz. Coconut Oil
6 oz. Olive Oil
6 oz. Palm Oil
1 oz. Sweet Almond Oil added at trace
2.2 oz. Sodium Hydroxide
7 fluid oz. Goat's Milk frozen and chopped

First question for this recipe:
Does the amount of liquid change with the liquid being used? Example: If I use water instead of GM on my first try with this recipe, do I just use 7 oz. of water? Since the sweet almond oil is supposed to be added at trace, do you add it in the lye calculator? The only way I could come up with 2.2 oz. of lye was if I didn't include the sweet almond oil. Now I can't come up with the exact liquid amount, though. The MMS says 4-6 oz. and SoapCalc says 6 oz. It's only an ounce difference, so does the liquid amount matter as much? Is it just personal preference?

The second recipe(from Anne's Watson's book)
10.5 oz. Coconut Oil
10.5 oz. Olive Oil
9 oz. Shea Butter
8 oz. Distilled Water
4.2 oz Sodium Hydroxide

Same thing with the liquid amount. I can get the lye amount (MMS: 4.28 oz. SoapCalc: 4.27 oz.). Water amounts vary... MMS 8-11 oz while SoapCalc says 11 oz.

Thanks for the help. I think my brain is muddled with all of the stuff I have been reading. LOL!

Jacque

 

[dixiedragon]

You will use more goat milk than water, b/c water is (obviously) 100% water, whereas goats milk has proteins, fats, etc so there is less water in there for the lye.

Those lye calculators have 5% superfat as the default. I ran the first recipe through the calculator at The Sage. a 10% superfat is 2.28 oz of lye, so that recipe is superfatted somewhere between 10% and 15% (I think). (FYI, superfat is the percentage of oil that is over what that amount of lye was saponify aka turn into soap. It's good to have extra just in case your measurements are off a bit, and it's also good to have that oil in the bar to moisturize your skin a bit. Some people like 0% superfat, some people like as much as 20%. The "standard" is 5%. I have noticed that a lot of book authors have 10% or more as their standard, and I wonder if that is b/c they don't want to be sued if somebody produces a lye-heavy soap, so they ere on the side of caution and build in that big superfat cushion?

The liquid amount is a personal preference. I, personally, like to use more water than many soapers - I usually use the highest number that MMS suggests, or if I am using soapcalc I will raise the water from 38% to 40%. For your first batch, I recommend this. More water = more time to pour and get your soap in the mold.

I don't know of a lye calculator that will let you put in a quantity of lye and then tell you want level of superfat that is. Probably some of our mathematically gifted soapers (not me) could do that calculation and tell you that.

 

[dixiedragon]

One of my favorite sites is www.millersoap.com. She has a lot of simple, clear explanations. IMO, many soap making books are full of a lot of yummy-sounding text and somewhat vague on the clear instructions. They are more like speciality cookbooks, whereas a new soaper needs something like the basic Betty Crocker cook book that tells you how to boil an egg, and that 3 teaspoons = 1 tablespoon. The miller soap site is good for that.

 

[The Efficacious Gentleman]

As Dixie said, it seems that the recipe wants to have the sweet almond oil as the superfat. But if you're doing it CP, adding it at trace won't help it to survive the process any more than the other oils - the saponification happens in the mold. To selectively superfat you'd need to add it after saponification, and that just isn't possible with CP.

 

[stateline]

Thank you very much for the helpful replies.

Correct me if I am wrong. If use the higher amount of water vs. lower amount of water, the only difference is how fast the soap dries? In the end the product will be the same?

If I want to do the 1st recipe, adding the sweet almond oil doesn't do anything, so I might as well add it in the beginning with the other oils? Also, do I need to add the sweet almond oil to the calculator or just leave it alone because the recipe is actually superfatted higher than 5%?

 

[The Efficacious Gentleman]

I'd add it to the calc - it may have a higher or lower saponifaction value (how it interacts with the lye) than other oils, so it's best to be spot on.

The water amount also helps or hinders with the making and pouring stages - more water generally equals more time to play

 

[Hermanam]

You will use more goat milk than water, b/c water is (obviously) 100% water, whereas goats milk has proteins, fats, etc so there is less water in there for the lye.

Now I am confused. I started another thread yesterday about using coconut milk in cp soap, and the consensus was that I can use my usual recipe, add HALF the recipe's water to the lye, and then add the difference in coconut milk at emulsion or trace. Since the coconut milk is obviously not all water, and is so much thicker, I questioned whether this was enough liquid for the lye...but everything I am reading says this is okay?

 

[seven]

Now I am confused. I started another thread yesterday about using coconut milk in cp soap, and the consensus was that I can use my usual recipe, add HALF the recipe's water to the lye, and then add the difference in coconut milk at emulsion or trace. Since the coconut milk is obviously not all water, and is so much thicker, I questioned whether this was enough liquid for the lye...but everything I am reading says this is okay?

you can actually calculate the fat and water content of the coconut milk. DeAnna made a post that explained this very clearly.. here it is:

http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showpost.php?p=385584&postcount=10

i think it'll help a lot

 

[Hermanam]

Seven, thanks for the link, it was very helpful...I must have missed that in my search. Either way, if I do it as you do ( half the water with the lye, half the water to thin the coconut milk), then it seems I don't need to be worried about the SF percentage, right? I mean, I may have a high SF, but I wouldn't need to worry about it being too low. Am I understanding this correctly?

 

[seven]

Seven, thanks for the link, it was very helpful...I must have missed that in my search. Either way, if I do it as you do ( half the water with the lye, half the water to thin the coconut milk), then it seems I don't need to be worried about the SF percentage, right? I mean, I may have a high SF, but I wouldn't need to worry about it being too low. Am I understanding this correctly?

yes, me thinks you're right. the coconut milk has fat content that will contribute to more SF. if you're worrying about being too low, then i don't think that's the case. please remember that each brand of CM has different fat contents, and by doing DeAnna's calculation, you should be able to see exactly how much your CM's fat content.

i loveee CM in soaps.. better than GM that is

 

[judymoody]

The minimum amount of water you need to fully dissolve lye at room temperature is 1:1 So as an example, your recipe from Anne Watson's book would be 4.2 oz lye and 4.2 oz of water.

Personally I don't recommend this, especially for beginning soapers. Even for the very experienced, you run the risk of undissolved lye crystals which could yield unsafe soap. I would never cut it this close myself.

But let's say you're using goat's milk or coconut milk for part of your liquid. As long as you dissolve your lye into an equal amount of water and then add additional liquid to make up the balance, you're on pretty safe ground that you'll have enough liquid to dissolve your lye. This is true even if some of that liquid consists of protein, fat, or sugar, as is the case with milks or beer.

"Full water" on lye calculators is generally between 2.5-3 x your lye weight. That is fine for a beginner soaper because it gives you more time to learn about the process and not feel rushed.

I am reasonably experienced and I use a 1:2 lye solution (33-34% on soapcalc) because that is a happy medium for me. I do not worry about undissolved lye, I have enough time to play and I have less shrinkage and evaporation to deal with in my finished soap.

Hope this makes sense.

 

[Hermanam]

judymoody, thanks for the explanation...it goes along with the thread I started yesterday about my first CM soap. Now it makes sense. So, as long as my initial water:lye ratio is at least 1:1 (btw I always SF at 5-8% and full water anyway), then I really don't need to worry about how much water is in the CM that I add at emulsion (because I already have enough water anyway)...right?