Lye test - No immediate zap, but spicy/tingling sensation to the tongue

[BeamgoesBrr]

My soap consist of 30% coconut oil, 10% castor oil, 50 %olive oil, and 10% shea butter with lavender,peppermint essential oil.

They have been set aside for 4 months. My skin get itchy after using the soap for a week. I am not sure if it's caused by not curing properly.

When I tried the zap test, I didn't get "zapped" immediately. Only after like 20 seconds I get this "spicy", tingling sensation in my tongue. Is that the "zap"?

Should I just try other more nourishing soap such as 90% olive oil, 10% coconut oil soap?

 

[Obsidian]

No, thats not a zap. It's most likely the peppermint EO you are feeling.

There are many things that can make itchy skin. I personally couldn't use that recipe, it would make me dry and itchy.

Coconut oil, most people keep it at 20% or lower. Too much can dry the skin. I like it at 15%

Olive oil. There are some people who can't use high OO. I'm one of them. Any more then 25% makes my skin really tight and itchy.

I use lard at 50%, if it wasn't for that, I would never be able to use handmade soap. Palm is a good substitute if you don't use animal products.

Nourishing doesn't mean squat when it comes to soap. The oils aren't oils anymore, they aren't going to nourish, moisture or condition your skin in any way.

Start making small batches, 1 lb max of different recipes. Leave it unscented and uncolored until you find your perfect recipe.

My basic recipe that moat people like well. Use 5% SF

Lard 50% (can replace all or part with palm)
Olive 25%
Coconut 20%
Castor 5%

 

[GemstonePony]

Welcome! Please introduce yourself in the Introduction Forum as well.
As Obsidian mentioned, oils take on completely different properties when they become soap. For instance, Coconut oil becomes drying, Olive oil makes my skin itchy, and castor oil absorbs water.
Since you're using high amounts of both coconut and Olive, I would start by dropping the coconut to 15%. If your skin is still itchy, you may need to find a substitute for some or all of the Olive oil. Since you're not saying what country you're from, I'm not sure what the available and inexpensive alternative oils would be in your area.

 

[BeamgoesBrr]

@Obsidian
I see. I will definitely try out lard or palm oil. I thought I messed up my process somehow. Thanks

@GemstonePony
Thanks! Oh my, I can see how destructive my recipe is. I am from Malaysia. I get all my oils from the internet, where most of them come inside an unlabeled plastic bottle.

One more question.

How do you guys know the properties of each oil? (Such as castor oil being able to absorb water) I only know how good coconut oil helps in lathering

 

[Jersey Girl]

How do you guys know the properties of each oil? (Such as castor oil being able to absorb water) I only know how good coconut oil helps in lathering

Here is just one source that describes the properties of different oils and what they bring to soap. Search for properties of oils in soap making.
http://summerbeemeadow.com/content/properties-soapmaking-oils

 

[DeeAnna]

The Summerbeemeadow info is decent, but the way it's organized gives a person the impression the soap made from each fat behaves much like the fat itself. You can't confuse the two -- what the fat does when turned into soap is not the same as what the fat itself is like. Unfortunately the SBM info does exactly that and it's misleading to people reading the info without any background.

Here's an example --

Babassu oil --

Contributes to: soap hardness, fluffy lather, quicker trace. Beneficial for both dry and oily complexions, gently moisturizing the skin without contributing to an oily sheen. Especially suitable for eczema, itchy, dry and inflamed skin.​

​

This is what the fatty acids from babassu do when turned into soap -- Contributes to: soap hardness, fluffy lather, quicker trace.​

​

Here's what the fat itself is like -- Beneficial for both dry and oily complexions, gently moisturizing the skin without contributing to an oily sheen. Especially suitable for eczema, itchy, dry and inflamed skin.​

A pure babassu oil soap will be a strong cleanser that is likely to be drying and perhaps even irritating to skin. Using babassu in large amounts in soap might not be a good idea -- the soap does NOT "gently moisturize" like the actual fat does.

 

[GemstonePony]

@Obsidian
I see. I will definitely try out lard or palm oil. I thought I messed up my process somehow. Thanks

@GemstonePony
Thanks! Oh my, I can see how destructive my recipe is. I am from Malaysia. I get all my oils from the internet, where most of them come inside an unlabeled plastic bottle.

One more question.

How do you guys know the properties of each oil? (Such as castor oil being able to absorb water) I only know how good coconut oil helps in lathering

I feel I should clarify- Olive oil soap isn't guaranteed to make your skin itch, and there are quite a few people who use and love 100% Olive oil soap with no problem. But some people are sensitive to Olive oil soap, so the Olive oil is only a problem if you're sensitive to it as well.
Jersey Girl posted a good resource, but there are a lot of books on the topic, and there's a lot of experience to learn from in the forum as well.
Also, soap in general tends to absorb water. Saponified castor oil is just really good at it. It's great for helping the bar release soap faster for more bubbles and, to a some degree, cleaning power.
Shea butter counteracts the solubility a little, so if you're not opposed to upping it slightly, I suggest the following:
15% coconut oil
5% castor oil
15% Shea butter
65% Olive oil.

 

[montana1]

No, thats not a zap. It's most likely the peppermint EO you are feeling.

Yes, very likely it's essential oils.

Earlier in life I had developed bad reaction to any kind of essential oil after heavy use of both "natural" cinnamon toothpaste and bee propolis, my mouth and tongue never been the same, it's incurable. One should be careful applying any essential oils in their mouth or doing zap tests, it can lead to permanent damage at some point or getting one sensitized. If there's a way to get accurate PH tester this is much better than any zap test.

Also, personally I'd have skin discomfort if I used a soap with those essential oils, the reason I'm starting own soapmaking is it's getting near impossible to buy soaps free from additives. So itchiness might be from these oils and not the lye. As to lye PH testing is definitely the way to go about while doing things safely.

 

[AliOop]

If there's a way to get accurate PH tester this is much better than any zap test.

I must gently disagree. The pH of your soap does not tell you whether it is lye heavy. The zap test does.

 

[montana1]

I must gently disagree. The pH of your soap does not tell you whether it is lye heavy. The zap test does.

So is there an alternative? I'm not well today after doing zap tests, already having medical issue affecting the mouth. I guess for simple stuff like I plan to do can just stick to already tested recipe and observing reaching vaseline stage.

 

[AliOop]

So is there an alternative? I'm not well today after doing zap tests, already having medical issue affecting the mouth. I guess for simple stuff like I plan to do can just stick to already tested recipe and observing reaching vaseline stage.

Gosh, so I'm sorry to hear that. As someone who is also sensitive to a lot of EO (especially the "hot" ones), and so many FOs, I do commiserate.

Honestly, I don't zap test my soap at all any more. A mildly lye-heavy soap will typically cure out in a few weeks. A very lye-heavy soap would irritate my hands during testing. It would also typically show other signs of being lye heavy, such as being crumbly, chalky, and dry, or have lye pockets in it.

It's like baking; you pretty much know when something's gone wrong, because the product either doesn't look right or taste right. With soap, it either won't look right or will irritate the skin during testing. Unless I see one of those signs, I really don't worry about it. I do use a lye calculator for every recipe, no matter what the source. Typos can and do happen!