Lye not melting...

[HCee]

Long time reader, first time poster.

Researched using sheep milk for CP soap and general consensus was to freeze milk first to reduce the risk of scorching it.
I had it frozen in ice cube trays so smallish pieces. Added the lye about 40 minutes ago and have been stirring and checking... And stirring and checking.... And stirring and checking, however it's still grainy and has gone a little lumpy. It doesn't appear to be heating up properly and has stopped at 84.5.

Any advice please? Thank you.

 

[shunt2011]

Did you add the lye slowly? If so, it's probably fine. It won't heat up much using frozen milk. What you're likely seeing is the fat in the milk saponifying from the lye. I would just strain it and it should be fine. The easiest way to make milk soaps is to mix your lye with an equal amount of water and then use the rest of the required liquid amount in milk. Add the milk to your oils before adding your cooled lye mixture.

 

[HCee]

Thank you!

That helps, as I stick blended it and smoothed it out, but I had to press it through a sieve, I think the fat separated. Milk is from my ewe who sadly had a stillborn a week ago poor girl, so I'm having to milk her and it's still going to be very rich.

It was the consistency of cheese sauce when I added it to the oils, but surprisingly it seems to have come together in the blend! I was going to bung it in the freezer so it stayed a creamy colour and didn't gel, but I'm now concerned it's not going to do it's thing, so am considering oven to force gel. Thoughts?

I *sort of* added the lye slowly, I did a little, tried stirring it, but it was all a bit nonsense, so I just bunged the rest in. I'm going to have to learn patience if I'm going to crack soap making. Not my strong point.

 

[earlene]

I learned the hard way that the frozen liquid method for making my lye solution is not for me. I had been able to make it work a few times, but it is such a fussy method and requires constant attention and babying. Walking away and letting in settle can lead to disaster. Yes, disaster. With a too-cold lye solution, the lye can actually form a solid rock-like substance that if added to the oils on the misconception that it will get hot enough to melt & re-liquify when put together with the oils, will not interact with the oils and will not heat up and melt, not even inside a loaf of soap set to saponify. Result: Solid pieces of lye rocks in my soap, yes truly a disaster, which I discovered when I cut the soap.

I no longer use frozen anything to make lye solution. When I make a milk soap, I use the split method, adding the milk to the oils, and using my 50% lye solution (master-batched lye solution) to slowly incorporate into the oils. Of course I don't make a lot of milk soaps, and there are a lot more people here who are experts when it comes to milk soaps.

 

[HCee]

When I make a milk soap, I use the split method, adding the milk to the oils, and using my 50% lye solution (master-batched lye solution) to slowly incorporate into the oils. Of course I don't make a lot of milk soaps, and there are a lot more people here who are experts when it comes to milk soaps.
[/QUOTE]

Thank you for your reply. It's good to hear someone say it's a faff as that's exactly what I thought.
Just help this noob understand here on something else...
I've heard of splitting the milk & water, so the 50% lye solution you speak of is 50% of the total recipe liquid (water) with the caustic soda in? Is that right?

 

[DeeAnna]

"...the 50% lye solution you speak of is 50% of the total recipe liquid (water) with the caustic soda in? Is that right? ..."

A 50% lye solution is however many grams of NaOH you need for your batch dissolved in water equal to the NaOH weight. That weight of water isn't necessarily half of the total water in the recipe -- it could be, but doesn't have to be.

In my last batch, the total water required was 493 grams and the NaOH required was 226 grams. I measured 452 g of 50% NaOH solution, which provided 226 g NaOH + 226 g water. The extra water needed = 493 - 226 = 267 g. That extra water could be just water, or beer, or milk, or other mostly-water based liquid.

 

[earlene]

What DeeAnna said.

By masterbatching lye, we mean that we make a 50% lye solution. So if I have 1000 grms of NaOH, I add that to 1000 grams of distilled water. Sodium Hydroxide requires at least equal amount of water to dissolve completely, and when making a masterbatch solution, one has to use at least equal amounts of water to NaOH. Therefore a 50% lye solution is also a 50% lye concentration.

When it comes time to make soap, in some lye calculators, one can select whether or not a masterbatch solution is being used, and within that selection, one then selects the lye concentration oe lye:water ratio of said masterbatch. In this case, using SoapmakingFriend SoapBuilder, I select 1:1 (see below)

Then when it is time to calculate the recipe, the calculator tells me how much additional liquid to add to get my desired lye concentration for said soap.

See below:

Circled in yellow is the part that tells me how much of my Masterbatch lye to measure out while the 'liquid required' is the amount of goats milk (or whatever other liquid I want to use for this particular soap) to measure out.

In my case, I add the other liquid to the oils, but it can be added to the already existing lye solution that was measured out. Or it can be added to the batter once it reaches trace. Or it can be used to mix with the colorants. It's all up to the individual soaper how & when they choose to add it.

 

[HCee]

Oh my poor head

I keep re-reading the last two replies as it's frustrating me that I'm struggling to completely understand it all.

So when you make up a masterbatch of lye, where do you keep the leftovers?

DeAnna - I have a question.
"In my last batch, the total water required was 493 grams and the NaOH required was 226 grams. I measured 452 g of 50% NaOH solution"
How did you arrive at 452g? Why that specific amount?

 

[earlene]

Oh my poor head

I keep re-reading the last two replies as it's frustrating me that I'm struggling to completely understand it all.

So when you make up a masterbatch of lye, where do you keep the leftovers?

DeAnna - I have a question.
"In my last batch, the total water required was 493 grams and the NaOH required was 226 grams. I measured 452 g of 50% NaOH solution"
How did you arrive at 452g? Why that specific amount?

What leftovers? Do you mean where does one store the pre-mixed lye solution? I store it in lye-save containers clearly labeled as to what they contain with air tight and child-proof lids in a secure area in my house. It is then readily available whenever I want to make soap. Depending on the soaper's living situation, precautions are required as related to children, pets, even the confused adult (living with someone with Alzheimer's for example.)

But as a novice soap maker, master-batching may not be something for you to do right now. Just make your lye solution normally each time you need it. When you have more experience you can re-visit the concept of master-batching if you so desire. It is not necessary, just something some soapers like to do to save time later.

 

[TheGecko]

Researched using sheep milk for CP soap and general consensus was to freeze milk first to reduce the risk of scorching it. I had it frozen in ice cube trays so smallish pieces. Added the lye about 40 minutes ago and have been stirring and checking... And stirring and checking.... And stirring and checking, however it's still grainy and has gone a little lumpy. It doesn't appear to be heating up properly and has stopped at 84.5.

I make goat milk soap and use fresh goat milk. I not only freeze my milk, but I mix my lye solution in an ice bath and never allow it to get above 75F.

And there is not 'heating up properly'. It's not the temperature, it's about making sure your lye has dissolved. When I make my regular soap with distilled water, I use ice cubes to keep the temperature down to about 100F

Fresh milk contains a lot of fat and sodium hydroxide binds with that fat...which is why your lye solution will be thick and grainy. And the longer the lye solution sits, the more 'lumpy' it will become as the lye has only the milk to bind to. It generally takes me about a half hour to prepare my lye solution for a 10lb batch of GMS. I add small amount of lye, stir until dissolved, watch the temp and add a little more. If it starts to get too warm, I just let it sit while I got about preparing the rest of my oils/butters and what not.

 

[atiz]

DeAnna - I have a question.
"In my last batch, the total water required was 493 grams and the NaOH required was 226 grams. I measured 452 g of 50% NaOH solution"
How did you arrive at 452g? Why that specific amount?

Not DA, but 452 = 226 x 2.
452g of a 50% solution will have 226g of NaOH and 226g water in it. So if you need 226g of NaOH according to your recipe, that is how much of the 50% solution you'll need.

 

[DeeAnna]

So when you make up a masterbatch of lye, where do you keep the leftovers?

In a sturdy polyethylene or polypropylene jug that has a secure screw-top cap. I use a heavy duty "carboy" intended for use in chemistry labs, but a liquid laundry detergent container (like the jugs that Tide comes in) works fine.

"...How did you arrive at 452g? Why that specific amount?..."

I needed 226 grams of NaOH to make my soap. A 50% NaOH solution is only 1/2 NaOH. The other 1/2 is water. So, for example, 10 grams of 50% NaOH solution will contain 5 g NaOH and 5 g water.

To get 226 grams of NaOH for my recipe, I had to measure TWICE that amount of NaOH solution.

2 x 226 = 452 grams of the NaOH solution.

 

[penelopejane]

Oh my poor head

I keep re-reading the last two replies as it's frustrating me that I'm struggling to completely understand it all.

So when you make up a masterbatch of lye, where do you keep the leftovers?

DeAnna - I have a question.
"In my last batch, the total water required was 493 grams and the NaOH required was 226 grams. I measured 452 g of 50% NaOH solution"
How did you arrive at 452g? Why that specific amount?

The reason for mixing equal weight of water with an equal weight of NaOH is that if you use less water than the weight of NaOH it will not dissolve. You can just make the exact amount of Lye/water for your recipe. You don't need to make a masterbatch and store it. (But, if you want to store it you can use a liquid clothes laundry bottle that has a 5 in the triangle on the bottom.)

DeeAnna's instructions were an example of how to make it for one recipe at a time.
If you would like to post your recipe we will try and show you exactly how to do the calculations.
It is a fabulous way to make milk soaps.