Lye & Labels ????

[LilyJo]

My apologies, I completely misread your comment about the cost of assessments.

 

[TheGecko]

My apologies, I completely misread your comment about the cost of assessments.

No worries.

 

[melinda48]

Ok so to start off with, you're speaking for an entire country now when you say that and not just your own idiotic and very incorrect opinion? I know it's the second one so the question mark is just to keep in with good grammar it's not actually a question I want answering!!!!!!!!!!
2 wow just wow, what an abrasive, vile and increadibly rude attitude you have towards something when you clearly dont know about how the system works! So in your opinion, are pharmacies just there to give chemists jobs too? Are research chemists just there to fill in the gap? That's basically what you are saying there! You also think having regulations stopping people making one bar then going on to selling it is a better one than making sure you weed out these potentially dangerous actions by inexperienced people giving those who do make good and safe soap a bad rep? Again dont want an answer because I'm not interested in your opion but it will give you something to think about quietly if you even care which I doubt you do!
Thirdly I wasnt even talking to you anyways so why do you feel the need to reply to me about something you are clearly very ignorant in and lack any kind of real knowledge on the reasons why and what the assessments and our regs even mean and control!
Fourthly the inci name ISNT what comes out the pot! The inci name is an internationally recognised name for ingriendents the inci has no connection with the soponified names which is what is out of the pot and is what we have to state on the labels and at pos! So before you go mouthing off about our rules maybe learn about the correct names for things before you post things that arnt even correct!
And fith and lastly I'm not replying again if you waste your time replying then I'll simply ignore you because you are commenting on something that has nothing to do with you and clearly you have no real knowledge about so your opinion is completely pointless!
Oh and just a side note, YOUR kind of attitude and rudeness, shown by others on this forum, is the exact reason I stopped using this forum and will probably be the reason why I stop using it again!

You are misinterpreting her comments. A lively debate can spark passions on both sides. Dig down to the kernel here and please lighten up. Just because many of us here in the US believe regulations in other countries are onerous, does not mean we do not take our responsibilities as soap makers lightly. I believe that my soap is top notch and I do not need a chemist to “approve” my work. I read, research, belong to groups such as this, and am always looking at how to increase my knowledge. A chemist may know chemistry but a soapmaler knows how to make soap following good soap making guidelines. There is room for everyone but not if we start sniping at each other.

 

[The_Phoenix]

Interesting read with my morning cup of coffee.

I started putting the phrase 'sapponified oils'... solves the issue I think.

I consider that a workaround to admitting to potential customers that your soap contains something that might scare them off from your soap. It’s also, IMHO, dishonest.

There a soap maker who is quite well known who advertises her soap as “contains no harsh chemicals” and she puts “sappnified oils” on her website and soap labels. It’s not a level playing field if I put “sodium hydroxide (lye)” on my label (it is after all an ingredient in my soap which is the whole purpose of having a list of ingredients) and another soap maker puts “saponified oil” on hers, despite the fact that she did, indeed, use sodium hydroxide to make her soap.

This is where the strict regulatory guidelines in the UK and elsewhere both protects the consumer and creates an equitable business environment. But we Americans generally balk at being told what to do and prefer to make our own individual rules

 

[SPowers]

I'm in Canada so our rules our different than the U.S. I'm only offering to friends and friends of friends at this point and I know my labels as currently written are not totally up to standard - my goal for this year!

 

[The_Phoenix]

I'm in Canada so our rules our different than the U.S. I'm only offering to friends and friends of friends at this point and I know my labels as currently written are not totally up to standard - my goal for this year!

Sorry to have singled you out in my response, @SPowers, and I apologize for my accusatory tone.

 

[SPowers]

no problem... I learned the hard way how the written word can be sometimes off-putting. Perspective is everything but not always what was intended.

 

[TheGecko]

I consider that a workaround to admitting to potential customers that your soap contains something that might scare them off from your soap. It’s also, IMHO, dishonest.

Using 'saponified oils of.....' is not 'dishonest' because saponification is the process of turning oils and butters into soap. Let's be honest here, the 'public' is pretty ignorant about a lot of things. I was just reading an Australian soap blog in which the soap maker is telling folk that if their soap contains 'sodium tallowate'..."it is a pretty safe bet that they also use other undesirable ingredients that ultimately harm the skin, such as alcohol or chemicals." I then went to their website and found: While 99.9% of the soap ingredient are completely natural and are derived from sustainable resources, there is some components that are required to enhance the longevity of the product, the only alternative would be to refrigerate the soap bars and have a 6 month shelf life.

Seriously!?!? Just what the heck are they making their soap with if they have add 'components' or the soap would go 'bad'? So I checked out their Ingredients List then had to LMBO at the description of one of their ingredients...Palm Kernel Fatty Acid It's a surfactant, cleansing agent and form booster. Mind you, in the blog...one of the reasons why Tallow was 'bad' was because: [Sodium Tallowate] is a surfactant, meaning it operates as cleansing agent, foam booster. If that isn't the pot calling the kettle black. For those who are curious, here is the link: Soap Ingredients | Australian Natural Soap

There a soap maker who is quite well known who advertises her soap as “contains no harsh chemicals” and she puts “saponified oils” on her website and soap labels. It’s not a level playing field if I put “sodium hydroxide (lye)” on my label (it is after all an ingredient in my soap which is the whole purpose of having a list of ingredients) and another soap maker puts “saponified oil” on hers, despite the fact that she did, indeed, use sodium hydroxide to make her soap.

First of all...if you have made your soap correctly, it DOESN'T contain any 'harsh chemicals' because the Sodium Hydroxide has been totally used up in the saponification process. And I'm sorry, but the whole 'level playing field' is a bunch of horse feathers. If that is the route you want to take, then let's not stop there...let's go all the way. Everyone has to use the same exact ingredients. Everyone has to use the same exact mold. Everyone has to cut their soap the same exact size. Everyone has to use the same exact packaging. Everyone has to use the same exact labels, the same exact fonts, the same exact websites and so on and so forth. No doing anything that might make your product stand out from anyone else's...ITP Swirls or Taiwan Swirls or Landscapes...or that wouldn't be "fair". Oh...and everyone has to sell their soap for the same exact price regardless of how much it cost to make it in your area. It wouldn't be a 'level playing field' if I sold my soap for $6.00 and you sold it for $7.00.

This is where the strict regulatory guidelines in the UK and elsewhere both protects the consumer and creates an equitable business environment. But we Americans generally balk at being told what to do and prefer to make our own individual rules.

Yes and no. The purpose of those guidelines is to make sure folks aren't making stuff that could cause injury or rip people off. Other than that, you can make whatever kinds of soap you are willing to pay assessments for or package it in a high end box or wrap it in wax paper.

With that said, I do think that the US could use a bit more regulation when it comes to soap making. I think that there are quite a few soap makers out there that should have their soap recipes 'assessed' or at least be required to take an educational course in soap making and ingredients.

 

[SPowers]

I really don't understand all the rage here... disagreement is one thing but my goodness, why the name calling?

Using 'saponified oils of.....' is not 'dishonest' because saponification is the process of turning oils and butters into soap. Let's be honest here, the 'public' is pretty ignorant about a lot of things. I was just reading an Australian soap blog in which the soap maker is telling folk that if their soap contains 'sodium tallowate'..."it is a pretty safe bet that they also use other undesirable ingredients that ultimately harm the skin, such as alcohol or chemicals." I then went to their website and found: While 99.9% of the soap ingredient are completely natural and are derived from sustainable resources, there is some components that are required to enhance the longevity of the product, the only alternative would be to refrigerate the soap bars and have a 6 month shelf life.

Seriously!?!? Just what the heck are they making their soap with if they have add 'components' or the soap would go 'bad'? So I checked out their Ingredients List then had to LMBO at the description of one of their ingredients...Palm Kernel Fatty Acid It's a surfactant, cleansing agent and form booster. Mind you, in the blog...one of the reasons why Tallow was 'bad' was because: [Sodium Tallowate] is a surfactant, meaning it operates as cleansing agent, foam booster. If that isn't the pot calling the kettle black. For those who are curious, here is the link: Soap Ingredients | Australian Natural Soap



First of all...if you have made your soap correctly, it DOESN'T contain any 'harsh chemicals' because the Sodium Hydroxide has been totally used up in the saponification process. And I'm sorry, but the whole 'level playing field' is a bunch of horse feathers. If that is the route you want to take, then let's not stop there...let's go all the way. Everyone has to use the same exact ingredients. Everyone has to use the same exact mold. Everyone has to cut their soap the same exact size. Everyone has to use the same exact packaging. Everyone has to use the same exact labels, the same exact fonts, the same exact websites and so on and so forth. No doing anything that might make your product stand out from anyone else's...ITP Swirls or Taiwan Swirls or Landscapes...or that wouldn't be "fair". Oh...and everyone has to sell their soap for the same exact price regardless of how much it cost to make it in your area. It wouldn't be a 'level playing field' if I sold my soap for $6.00 and you sold it for $7.00.



Yes and no. The purpose of those guidelines is to make sure folks aren't making stuff that could cause injury or rip people off. Other than that, you can make whatever kinds of soap you are willing to pay assessments for or package it in a high end box or wrap it in wax paper.

With that said, I do think that the US could use a bit more regulation when it comes to soap making. I think that there are quite a few soap makers out there that should have their soap recipes 'assessed' or at least be required to take an educational course in soap making and ingredients.

I belong to a U.S. and a Canadian FB group and I as a relatively newbie (May 2020) am so surprised by some of the things I see in posts. Not the questions, as they are there looking for help but some of the answers are so off base. I often feel like an expert (which I don't claim to be) compared to some of the post writers. If I an enlighten I try to but if not, I just 'walk on by' and call it a day!

 

[bmcknight86]

I make hot process and cold process soap that I sell locally. As far as labeling goes, do you legally have to put lye as an ingredient even though at the end of the process the lye should be no longer an ingredient?

On dr. bronzers organic Castile soap they have the lye listed on both their bar and liquid soap but put a star next to it and at the bottom but that none remains and/or is neutralized by the end of the process