Lye Dust Concerns

[LilianNoir]

I've made exactly one batch of soap, with a friend, under her supervision and became hooked. After months of reading, watching, researching, and then putting it off due to illness, I determined to make my first batch on my own this weekend.

I wanted to pre mix my lye solution, so decided to do 20z of a 1:1 lye solution today.

I knew all the pre cautions, and I feel comfortable with the process..except, I didn't count on lye dust.
I was using lye from brambleberry and from everything I read and saw, they were granules. Medium-large crystals.

While that was true, the outside of the bottle was also covered in what I guess was lye dust- a fine, white powder.

I used all the safety precautions. Long sleeves. Gloves. Goggles.I mixed it outside because I wanted to ensure ventilation and we have a very small kitchen. I felt it'd be easier to clean up. I made it on a glass table outside. I did NOT cover the table with newspaper (we didn't have anything and I figured I'd just wipe it down with vinegar) or use a basin underneath my mixing container. I need to do that next time(if you do this do you use a basin specifically/only for soaping?)
I was careful when measuring and mixing, but I noticed fumes just when I was pouring out lye tto measure/weigh it. I'm guessing that was because it's Florida and it was humid outside? (73% humidity, ugh)

I mixed everything as carefully as I could. I don't think any solution splashed. I wiped down the table, and my scale(which looked to have white powder on it but no crystals). Afterwards, I noticed my infrared thermometer(I wanted to see what the temp was, for curiosity) also had white powder where I gripped it, so I wiped that down too.

Now I'm concerned that anything I touched with my gloved hand is contaminated, including the handle to my sliding glass door? I wiped everything down, and rinsed the container holding the lye, the spoon, and the gloves very well. I guess that's the best I can do but I have this fear I missed some dust and that one of us or the cats are going to burn ourselves at some point, unknowingly...

How do you deal with lye dust?

 

[cerelife]

I know exactly how you feel! I've been doing this for years, but I'm still scared that I'll leave some tiny crystal of lye somewhere for the cats to find! I'm not sure about 'lye dust' since I've never encountered this. I buy the Rooto brand of lye from our local Ace Hardware for about $4/lb. This lye is in small granules/crystals and I've never noticed any dust.
Here's a link to just to show you what the bottle looks like:
https://www.idealtruevalue.com/stor...790DR1Lh6zEWgLfl7e7ypiemhZwAxkokaAhjkEALw_wcB
I have a small kitchen as well, but I find it much easier to mix my lye inside with my lye pitchers in the kitchen sink since if I spill some, it's just going down the drain. I cover my work area in the kitchen (my countertops and stove) with the $1 plastic tablecloths you can pick up at any dollar store or Walmart, and I leave a little bit hanging over the edge into my sink. I put my scales next to the sink with my bottles of lye behind them. My soap pots go into the other section of my sink when I add my lye water and blend - again, if it splashes, or I tip it over, it's in the sink and not running over my counters/going onto the floor. When I'm done soaping, I just roll up the plastic tablecloth starting at end where I had my lye and take them out to the trash bin. Then I spray my working area with vinegar and wipe it down - spray the floor with vinegar and mop the kitchen floor. This may sound excessive, but I usually soap 8 to 12 batches in one soaping session, so it's not a big deal to me to do it every couple of weeks. I also remove my disposable gloves after every single time of handling the lye and/or raw soap. I go through a LOT of gloves, but at least they're cheap!
This method of preventing contamination is similar to what I use at my 'real job' at the hospital when I have a patient with something that is highly contagious/communicable. Keep the area of contamination as small as possible.
Hope this helps!

 

[cmzaha]

I have never seen lye dust like you explain, and I am thinking some clay or powder ended up on the outside of your container. I am betting the powder was not NaOH.

As for contamination any spilled lye crystals will absorb moisture and end crystslizing into sodium carbonate aka washing soda. I am not talking about large spills.

Do not let lye scare you, thst is how accidents happen, but do respect it. Also the more you carry and transfer lye solution the more chance of a spill.

 

[shunt2011]

The only time I experienced lye dust was from 55 lb bags when I had to rebottle it. There was a lot of dust and it actually did end up on the ouside portion of the bottles. I just wiped them down.

 

[earlene]

With that kind of humidity outdoors, I would not pour and measure the dry lye outside. It will introduce water into the container, which will reduce the purity of your lye, which will produce clumps inside the container later. But that is why you noticed fumes while measuring the dry lye. The ambient moisture was drawn to the dry lye and they started dancing together! Good thing you were wearing all your PPE. Breathing in the fumes can be uncomfortable, so at least you didn't do that.

In future, I suggest you weigh out your dry lye inside your air conditioned home. Cover it well (a plastic cover) before taking it outside to mix into your distilled water. Don't allow the air to touch the lye anymore than absolutely necessary, to prevent extra water from the air to dilute your crystals.

Clean off the outside of your lye container with a dryer sheet (if you use them - I don't, so I use a cloth lightly sprayed with an anti-cling spray - not saturated) prior to handling. This helps reduce static and should remove any powders you have noticed. I have not experienced powdery substance on the outside of my lye containers, but I would suggest you inspect them (if more than one bottle was received in your mailing) for minutes cracks. If you find any, contact BB and inform them of a possible shipping issue. I am sure they would be interested if such was the case.

Regarding using a bin or container to contain your lye mixing process. I was taught to use a plastic dish pan to set the lye mixing container and such into. Then any spills would fall into the dishpan and the dishpan is easy to clean. Once washed normally with soap and water, the dishpan can be used for normal purposed once again. It does not have to be dedicated only to soapmaking, but if you choose to do so, that is fine, too.

Lye, well rinsed with water, becomes inactive.

Your gloves are not contaminated with lye as long as you rinsed them with sufficient water. Sufficient would be as if you were washing your hands (while wearing the gloves) normally. I would suggest to simply wash your gloved hands with soap and water, pat dry, remove and allow them to dry.

It can be a concern to touch the aluminum handle to your sliding glass door, however, so in future, I suggest you use a clean paper towel or clean rag to hold the aluminum handle before touching with your un-cleaned gloves if they have touched lye. Lye does react with aluminum enough to clean it and make it really shiny, but it's not going to destroy it if you clean it off right away with plain water. I have a shiny spot on my pizza pan in my oven where soap spilled over onto the pan and sat for some time before I noticed it and cleaned it. It did not eat through the aluminum, but it did clean it and make one spot really shine. I don't normally put soap on top of my pizza pan, but that one time and voila!

 

[LilianNoir]

Thanks for the replies guys! This is all really helpful! I'm wondering if the dust really was lye now. The bottle came from Brambleberry. It had dust noticeably on the outside of the container, within the sealed plastic bag it came in. I'm going to contact BB customer support today. I've wiped down the entire bottle, outside, with a wet paper towel, again with vinegar and a dry paper towel. So at least moving forward, if it was lye, it won't be a problem now.


@earlene, I totally agree with you re: outside. I think I'll be measuring my lye inside the house now. I'm thinking of just making the solution inside entirely, except i have a fish tank near the kitchen sink and honestly, there's a lot near the sink itself. We DO have a sturdy plastic dish pan that's not used for dishes(Not-husband uses it for various painting projects) that I could use to put my lye container in while making lye solution, and do it under the stove hood(we have a glass top stove, so I could just cover that with paper- I finally have a use for those stupid "Free" newspapers we get thrown on our porch!). There shouldn't be anymore dust now that I've cleaned the bottle and the vent will take care of fumes. I just gotta get all Four cats put away. LOLOL.

What are your thoughts on that?

Thankfully, this was a masterbatch, so I won't have to deal with making lye solution for a little bit.

The concern i had re my gloves was, since I was doing it outside, my gloves had dust on them before i could wash them...I had to open the glass door and walk inside. Although I DID go right to the sink, and wiped down the handle very well. In fact...you bring up a good point about the aluminum. I didn't see a reaction on the door...and if there was enough moisture in the air to react with lye as I was just pouring it, the dust on the scale, and whereever else, if it WERE lye would've reacted with the moisture in the air as well, as there weren't any other fumes. So perhaps, cmzaha is right.

And, 24 hours later, there are no signs of trouble. Well, one of our cats had an episode this morning but I'm 99.999% certain it was utterly unrelated.

I'm sure I was over reacting a bit. I was totally prepared, and researched...but I wasn't expecting that dust (whatever it was) so felt some additional insight might help. You did not fail!


EDIT: a note! There are some clumps/crystals at the bottom of my solution. I did notice that there was a .15 ounce weight loss after the fuming had stopped, presumable water vapor loss. Would adding that .15 water help the crystals to dissolve(it was a 1:1 solution) or do I need to dump that and remake?

 

[steffamarie]

EDIT: a note! There are some clumps/crystals at the bottom of my solution. I did notice that there was a .15 ounce weight loss after the fuming had stopped, presumable water vapor loss. Would adding that .15 water help the crystals to dissolve(it was a 1:1 solution) or do I need to dump that and remake?

Yes, I always add back whatever water evaporated off of my masterbatched lye solution. It's probably not enough water to make a huge difference and potentially some of those clumps are lye lint (sodium carbonate again) but I add it back on principle.

 

[Steve85569]

EDIT: a note! There are some clumps/crystals at the bottom of my solution. I did notice that there was a .15 ounce weight loss after the fuming had stopped, presumable water vapor loss. Would adding that .15 water help the crystals to dissolve(it was a 1:1 solution) or do I need to dump that and remake?

Adding a bit more liquid and stirring carefully should do the trick.
As has been said don't be afraid of it, simply respect it as you would something hot on the stove and wear the correct protective gear for the job at hand.

 

[earlene]

@earlene, I totally agree with you re: outside. I think I'll be measuring my lye inside the house now. I'm thinking of just making the solution inside entirely, except i have a fish tank near the kitchen sink and honestly, there's a lot near the sink itself. We DO have a sturdy plastic dish pan that's not used for dishes(Not-husband uses it for various painting projects) that I could use to put my lye container in while making lye solution, and do it under the stove hood(we have a glass top stove, so I could just cover that with paper- I finally have a use for those stupid "Free" newspapers we get thrown on our porch!). There shouldn't be anymore dust now that I've cleaned the bottle and the vent will take care of fumes. I just gotta get all Four cats put away. LOLOL.

What are your thoughts on that?

That should be fine, but still make sure to wear mask and not breath in the fumes. Even a stove hood fan isn't going to protect you from lye fumes. The mask and eye protection is still a must.

I forgot to mention that I don't think it's good for the scale to be used in high humidity. I don't know for sure, but it just seems it might interfere with accuracy. I looked it up and there is some truth to that, at least with laboratory scales, it can affect the balance and internal mechanisms of the scale with the relative humidity falls below 40%. I didn't find anything about what happens when it rise above 60%, but the recommendation was to maintain a level within the range of 40-60% relative humidity (in the laboratory setting with professional scales.) Even though we don't use professional scales (very expensive) I still think it would apply.

EDIT: a note! There are some clumps/crystals at the bottom of my solution. I did notice that there was a .15 ounce weight loss after the fuming had stopped, presumable water vapor loss. Would adding that .15 water help the crystals to dissolve(it was a 1:1 solution) or do I need to dump that and remake?

Yes, when I masterbatch my lye I always weigh before and after, then replace the evaporated water to ensure no lye precipitates out of solution. (No don't dump it out, but make sure it goes back into solution with thorough mixing.)

I suggest you also stir or mix the masterbatch lye a bit prior to pouring it out to measure. I always shake mine inside the bottle (which has a VERY TIGHT secure seal) beforehand to ensure nothing has come out of solution. I masterbatch at 50%, so it can look pretty murky inside the bottle and I don't want to risk lye crystals in my soap. And if you see floaters or crystals again, you might want to use a strainer when you add that to your oils to be positive you have no solid bit of lye added to your soap.

 

[atiz]

I would also think that it wasn't lye dust -- at least I have never seen that. And agree with cmzaha, don't be scared of the lye.
I just put a pitcher in the sink and make the lye solution in that one. Any spilled lye or lye water can be easily flushed down. As cmzaha said, small portions of lye, if left in the air for long, will turn into washing soda, so that's really no problem.

You can always add more water. Most people here have a 2:1 water to lye ratio (e.g., 2g of water for every g of lye). If your ration is less than 1:1 water to lye, the lye won't dissolve.

Good luck! Once you work with lye often enough, it will become much easier (and much less scary).

 

[cmzaha]

I have purchased 50 lb bags for years and never experienced dust. Guess I am just lucky

 

[LilianNoir]

In theory, I'm ok with lye. In practice...well I'm also ok, as long everything goes to plan. LOL.
You'd think someone who used to muck around organic chemistry labs would be fine. But i think part of my concern is that this isn't a lab, but my house.
Oh man, what I'd give to be able to soap in a lab (or industrial kitchen!)
One day.

This:
"small portions of lye, if left in the air for long, will turn into washing soda"

is a good reminder. When I know the full limits of what I'm working with, my brain can adjust. If that makes sense.
If anyone is interested, I'll post the reply from BB (if I get one).

Here's a quick question: temps for storing dry lye(not solution)? I currently have the container in a bucket with damp rid and a lid (ala: DeeAnna) on the floor of my kitchen pantry, but it's kind of bulky. Considering moving to the garage, but UGH Florida. Garage temp in summer can read the high 90s. (I hate it here). Is that too high?

PS- Fun little piece of info. My lye solution got up 226 degrees. I expected high temps with a concentrated solution but that was very interesting to see!

 

[atiz]

In theory, I'm ok with lye. In practice...well I'm also ok, as long everything goes to plan. LOL.
You'd think someone who used to muck around organic chemistry labs would be fine. But i think part of my concern is that this isn't a lab, but my house.
Oh man, what I'd give to be able to soap in a lab (or industrial kitchen!)
One day.

This:
"small portions of lye, if left in the air for long, will turn into washing soda"

is a good reminder. When I know the full limits of what I'm working with, my brain can adjust. If that makes sense.
If anyone is interested, I'll post the reply from BB (if I get one).

Here's a quick question: temps for storing dry lye(not solution)? I currently have the container in a bucket with damp rid and a lid (ala: DeeAnna) on the floor of my kitchen pantry, but it's kind of bulky. Considering moving to the garage, but UGH Florida. Garage temp in summer can read the high 90s. (I hate it here). Is that too high?

PS- Fun little piece of info. My lye solution got up 226 degrees. I expected high temps with a concentrated solution but that was very interesting to see!

How much lye did you get? Well, I'm just a hobbyist but I usually buy 8--16 oz at a time and it lasts me for a while (and easy to store in a bathroom or kitchen cabinet).
I'm not sure about the temperature but my bigger worry would be the humidity; you'll have to make sure your container is absolutely airtight. I don't think the 90--100 temperature range would be a big problem in itself (but I'm not a chemist so you should double check that).

Treat soaping like cooking! Cooking is also dangerous -- hot water, hot oven, pepper that can get into your eyes, etc., but once you know what you are doing and have some common sense caution, you'll be fine.

 

[DeeAnna]

Temps aren't a problem -- I'd put your bucket in the garage in a heartbeat. I'd be more concerned about humidity, but if your bucket is well sealed, it should be fine. Just watch it closely for awhile to see how it does.

Does your Damp Rid tell you when it's absorbed all the water it can take? I use canisters of silica gel that turn color when the gel can't absorb any more water. That works good.

There are canisters that you recharge in the oven (see below) and cartridges you plug into an electrical receptacle to recharge. The oven recharge is less convenient, but there is more gel in the canisters so they don't need to be recharged as often. It's a trade off, I guess. I have used both and gave my electric recharge ones to my husband for his guns. I use the canisters now.

Here's the one I use: https://www.amazon.com/Cannon-Safe-SGD57-Silica-Dehumidifier/dp/B005HH5UCE
And here's another possibility: https://www.amazon.com/LOCKDOWN-Silica-Gel-750-grams/dp/B004QUIWAA

 

[LilianNoir]

How much lye did you get? Well, I'm just a hobbyist but I usually buy 8--16 oz at a time and it lasts me for a while (and easy to store in a bathroom or kitchen cabinet).
I'm not sure about the temperature but my bigger worry would be the humidity; you'll have to make sure your container is absolutely airtight. I don't think the 90--100 temperature range would be a big problem in itself (but I'm not a chemist so you should double check that).

It's really not a lot. I ordered the swirl kit from Brambleberry (I'm planning on making a non-scented, basic recipe first...but for waht you got, the kit was a good deal) and it came with a 2lbs (32oz) bottle of lye.

I made a 20oz masterbatch (10 oz of lye) so I think I'll be good for 2-3 small batches.

 

[LilianNoir]

Temps aren't a problem -- I'd put your bucket in the garage in a heartbeat. I'd be more concerned about humidity, but if your bucket is well sealed, it should be fine. Just watch it closely for awhile to see how it does.

Does your Damp Rid tell you when it's absorbed all the water it can take? I use canisters of silica gel that turn color when the gel can't absorb any more water. That works good.

There are canisters that you recharge in the oven (see below) and cartridges you plug into an electrical receptacle to recharge. The oven recharge is less convenient, but there is more gel in the canisters so they don't need to be recharged as often. It's a trade off, I guess. I have used both and gave my electric recharge ones to my husband for his guns. I use the canisters now.

Here's the one I use: https://www.amazon.com/Cannon-Safe-SGD57-Silica-Dehumidifier/dp/B005HH5UCE
And here's another possibility: https://www.amazon.com/LOCKDOWN-Silica-Gel-750-grams/dp/B004QUIWAA

DeeAnna HIIIII. (I feel like i'm talking to a soap celebrity)Your posts/bells site is so useful. Thanks for laying so much important info down so clearly.
The DampRid...damnit...I wasn't thinking straight when I got it(it was a long day) it pulls water out of the air into the crystals, and then the crystals "gradually dissolve into a liquid brine" caught in the bucket below. I should not have gotten that one(we can still use it though)
I guess I should to get the gel canisters you linked to. I was hoping to not have to spend too much money on that, but being in Florida..well... I don't seem to have much of a choice.

 

[earlene]

I'd be okay storing in the garage also, if you use the gamma lid on the bucket, well sealed. But because of Florida humidity (been there many times/experienced the Disney rash syndrome as a result) I would carry the bucket indoors to the AC'd soaping area before opening the lid to get out your lye bottle.

 

[DeeAnna]

The damp rid will work fine. Just that it needs to be replaced promptly when it's no longer able to dehumidify the air in your storage bucket.

Chemists sometimes use NaOH as a dehumidifier, didja know that? It is one of the most powerful dehumidifier chemicals that can be used -- silica gel or damp rid are amateurs compared to NaOH. It turns into a liquid as it dehumidifies, just like damp rid.

That's why I stress that a person should always always store NaOH in its own tightly-sealed storage containers and put those containers into the storage bucket. The "official" dehumidifier (damp rid or silica crystals or whatever) goes into the bucket totally separated from the NaOH. NaOH should never be in the same air as the "official" dehumidifier -- the NaOH will win the dehumidifier game every time, and that's not what you want.

Earlene makes an excellent point about carrying the bucket indoors before opening it. Good idea!

 

[LilianNoir]

The damp rid will work fine. Just that it needs to be replaced promptly when it's no longer able to dehumidify the air in your storage bucket.

Chemists sometimes use NaOH as a dehumidifier, didja know that? It is one of the most powerful dehumidifier chemicals that can be used -- silica gel or damp rid are amateurs compared to NaOH. It turns into a liquid as it dehumidifies, just like damp rid.

That's why I stress that a person should always always store NaOH in its own tightly-sealed storage containers and put those containers into the storage bucket. The "official" dehumidifier (damp rid or silica crystals or whatever) goes into the bucket totally separated from the NaOH. NaOH should never be in the same air as the "official" dehumidifier -- the NaOH will win the dehumidifier game every time, and that's not what you want.

Earlene makes an excellent point about carrying the bucket indoors before opening it. Good idea!

I'd planned to bring it indoors to measure and such.
TBH I don't trust myself to check the damp rid often enough. I wound up buying the rechargeable silica you linked to DeeAnna. My experience with damp rid is that it generates liquid VERY quickly.
I've set up the bucket pretty much exactly as you describe: sealed lye, in a bucket, with the gamma lid. So I think I'll be good. I feel better about it overall.

FWIW, BrambleBerry wrote back and said "Some lye dust can spill out which is why we take the extra precaution of bagging the lye. You will want to remove the lye bottle from the bag while wearing gloves then wipe it down / toss the packaging."

So I guess it was lye dust.
ANYWAY. I feel much better and more informed. Thank you ^_^

 

[Fisher]

I recently had a lye crystal bounce in very cold weather here in NY. I thought I had gotten it all only to notice a few days later that it hit my hardwood floors now they are stained like freckles any advice here?