Lye Calculator Vs Reality

[mosesakpan]

Hello,
Please help me out with the soap calculator. I’ve been making laundry bar 100% PKO with 0% Superfat using online soapcalc until I change the recipe to 80% PO and 20%PKO. Check the attached recipe.
The result on soap calc is completely different from what it is in reality. 80PO:20PKO is far harder than 100PKO. Infact if you wait for 24hrs before unmolding 80PO:20PKO you find it so difficult unmolding it except you use silicone mold.
For the cleansing it is also not so. But I would like someone make a little quantity of this recipe and try it yourself. You can use Tallow and Coconut 80T:20CO Vs 100% CO. Then compare them by yourself.
Though theoretically I’m not correct but in reality it is so. Is there anyone in the forum that observes this? Remember this soap bar is for laundry and not for body bath.

 

[BattleGnome]

Those numbers are a guideline at best. A great example of the numbers not matching up would be a 100% olive oil bar. It's one of the most popular soaps in the world but the soap calculators numbers state the cleansing and hardness are very low. The numbers are low enough you might not expect that a 100% olive oil bar would even harden. At the same time, given a proper cure olive oil bars are rock solid and certainly do their job.

To give you a better idea of the cleansing number: think of it as how well it strips oils. All soap cleans by definition, you wouldn't be able to call it soap if it didn't. The cleats number looks more at how well ipthe soap strips the oil from your skin. Using the oilive oil example again, after washing your hands your skin still feels very soft. When using a similarly made coconut oil bar most people run for the bottle of lotion because their skin feels dry and cracked. You can also use additives to adjust the cleansing number. Using milks or purées adds grave amounts of fat to compensate in the super fat.

If I remember right you are trying to refine your recipe in hopes to sell. This may be a case where you ignore the numbers and see what works better. Do you intend for your customers to wash clothing by hand? Make sure it's not going to make someone's hands feel raw. Is there a common industry in the area? Make sure your soap gets out any associated stains (lots of iron mining in my area, if I were to sell laundry soap I'd want iron residue to be washed out cleanly). When you have an opportunity, do a side by side test. Soak a rag in some oil, let it se, then cut the rag in half. Wash one half with one recipe and the other half with the second. The recipe that works better is what matters.

 

[mosesakpan]

Those numbers are a guideline at best. A great example of the numbers not matching up would be a 100% olive oil bar. It's one of the most popular soaps in the world but the soap calculators numbers state the cleansing and hardness are very low. The numbers are low enough you mi.......

If I remember right you are trying to refine your recipe in hopes to sell. This may be a case where you ignore the numbers and see what works better. Do you intend for your customers to wash clothing by hand? Make sure it's not going to make someone's hands feel raw. Is there a common industry in the area? Make sure your soap gets out any associated stains (lots of iron mining in my area, if I were to sell laundry soap I'd want iron residue to be washed out cleanly). When you have an opportunity, do a side by side test. Soak a rag in some oil, let it se, then cut the rag in half. Wash one half with one recipe and the other half with the second. The recipe that works better is what matters.

Thank you for your post.
What you are saying is true. Aside from cleansing 100PKO is very drying to the skin. But 100%Tallow is milder. Yes my laundry bar is for hand washing and not for machine.

How can i increase the cleansing property with additives? What kind of additive?

Thank you.

 

[psfred]

The number for hardness, cleansing, etc in SoapCalc are simply calculated from the ratios of the fatty acids. They do not account for differences in soap composition, so they are really not steady numbers anything but comparison.

I pay more attention to the fractional amounts of fatty acids -- the higher the palmitic plus stearic numbers, the harder the bar is going to be. The lauric and myristic acids are mostly from coconut oil, and are "cleansing" in that they tend to strip oils from the skin and also dissolve more easily in water. Oleic and linoleic acids tend to be "conditioning" to the skin.

You will really have to make a few batches of soap, cure them properly, then test them and compare the results in use with the fatty acid profiles, then work from there. You also need con consider your water -- if you have very hard water, higher amounts of coconut oil will make the soap lather up better (100% CO soap will lather in sea water, no other soap will).

As far as additives go, tetrasodium EDTA will be quite helpful with metal stain removal (iron stains) and assist with lather in hard water.

 

[mosesakpan]

The number for hardness, cleansing, etc in SoapCalc are simply calculated from the ratios of the fatty acids. They do not account for differences in soap composition, so they are really not steady numbers anything but comparison.

I pay more attention to the fractional amounts of fatty acids -- the higher the palmitic plus stearic numbers, the harder the bar is going to be. The lauric and myristic acids are mostly from coconut oil, and are "cleansing" in that they tend to strip oils from the skin and also dissolve more easily in water. Oleic and linoleic acids tend to be "conditioning" to the skin.

You will really have to make a few batches of soap, cure them properly, then test them and compare the results in use with the fatty acid profiles, then work from there. You also need con consider your water -- if you have very hard water, higher amounts of coconut oil will make the soap lather up better (100% CO soap will lather in sea water, no other soap will).

As far as additives go, tetrasodium EDTA will be quite helpful with metal stain removal (iron stains) and assist with lather in hard water.

I'll look at EDTA how environmentally friendly it is. Recently I read from the site below and it confirmed my observation.
http://www.soapworld.biz/oils_and_fats_in_soap_manufacturing.html check it.

 

[DeeAnna]

Your link is not very helpful. It also says EDTA is an antioxidant. For the record, EDTA is a chelator, not an antioxidant.

 

[BattleGnome]

Thank you for your post.

How can i increase the cleansing property with additives? What kind of additive?

I've never attempted to adjust the cleansing properties with additives. I only make body soap and haven't had a need to try.

I'd probably go with psfred's suggestion and test a bunch of recipes then comparing fatty acid profiles.