Liquid Castile soap creating a vacuum. How?

[DeeAnna]

And remember that the plastic in these flimsy bottles can be slightly deformed or weakened from being washed, moved around, heated/cooled, etc. If there is a slightly weaker part of the bottle, any distortion will show there first.

The super-thin bottles of drinking water that I have in my pantry show similar deformation just from sitting quietly at ambient temperature on a shelf. They look fine when new, then gradually deform as time goes on.

 

[Zany_in_CO]

Good discussion. Although I wasn't able to contribute to why the bottle weirded out, here are my comments about your recipe.

As I long-time member of a liquid soap making group, 100% olive oil castile is one of the most challenging to make. It takes a long time to trace (45 minutes for me) and a long time to cook (3-9 hours on average; 10 hours for me the first time) until it tests neutral for lye excess.

TIPS:
Be sure your SB has a stainless steel shaft... the high heat of making LS can melt plastic.

Because OO has "unsaponifiables" you were correct to use 0% SF and 90% KOH. The thing to keep in mind though, is, once you know your KOH amount, you need that number X 3 for your water amount to make the lye solution -- due to evaporation during the long cook. There is a place on SoapCalc.net where you can enter 3:1 Water to Lye Ratio



Dilution: While 100% coconut oil and more balanced formulas will dilute nicely at 40% soap to 60% dilution water, the recommended dilution for 100% OO is 15% Soap to 85% water. This results in thin soap but with excellent lather and cleansing properties. You will then need to thicken with brine solution (or thickener of choice).

Viscosity is, of course, a matter of preference. But the high viscosity of your finished soap means that a lot of it goes down the drain and it takes longer to rinse off. My recommendation is to take a portion of the soap, say 100 grams, and try the 15 grams to 85 grams ratio to see how you like it. I think you will be surprised at the feel of the lather and how well it cleans. I know I was! LOL

There's good info plus Tips & Tricks about making liquid soap in the link below. Faith also has a tutorial on making 100% OO using the glycerin method (which is what I do), but it is an advanced technique, dangerous due to the high heat of the lye solution, so I don't recommend trying it until you have a few more batches under your belt.

http://alaiynab.blogspot.com/search/label/tutorial

HAPPY SOAPING!

 

[Karen jw]

Good discussion. Although I wasn't able to contribute to why the bottle weirded out, here are my comments about your recipe.

As I long-time member of a liquid soap making group, 100% olive oil castile is one of the most challenging to make. It takes a long time to trace (45 minutes for me) and a long time to cook (3-9 hours on average; 10 hours for me the first time) until it tests neutral for lye excess.

TIPS:
Be sure your SB has a stainless steel shaft... the high heat of making LS can melt plastic.

Because OO has "unsaponifiables" you were correct to use 0% SF and 90% KOH. The thing to keep in mind though, is, once you know your KOH amount, you need that number X 3 for your water amount to make the lye solution -- due to evaporation during the long cook. There is a place on SoapCalc.net where you can enter 3:1 Water to Lye Ratio

View attachment 40507

Dilution: While 100% coconut oil and more balanced formulas will dilute nicely at 40% soap to 60% dilution water, the recommended dilution for 100% OO is 15% Soap to 85% water. This results in thin soap but with excellent lather and cleansing properties. You will then need to thicken with brine solution (or thickener of choice).

Viscosity is, of course, a matter of preference. But the high viscosity of your finished soap means that a lot of it goes down the drain and it takes longer to rinse off. My recommendation is to take a portion of the soap, say 100 grams, and try the 15 grams to 85 grams ratio to see how you like it. I think you will be surprised at the feel of the lather and how well it cleans. I know I was! LOL

There's good info plus Tips & Tricks about making liquid soap in the link below. Faith also has a tutorial on making 100% OO using the glycerin method (which is what I do), but it is an advanced technique, dangerous due to the high heat of the lye solution, so I don't recommend trying it until you have a few more batches under your belt.

http://alaiynab.blogspot.com/search/label/tutorial

HAPPY SOAPING! View attachment 40510

That's really helpful info.
Yes it did take around that long to get to trace but I was expecting that with the pure oo. I did the zap test after I thought it was fully cooked and there was no zap at all and it had cooked to a thick clear jelly so I thought it was finished.
Loads of really helpful info here.
So glad I posted this question.
Thank you all

 

[DeeAnna]

Once the soap paste is zap free, it's done. You can choose to cook it longer, certainly, but you don't have to. I make liquid soap from 100% sunflower, which is even higher in oleic acid than olive oil, and it's usually done in under an hour ... two hours tops if I'm out of practice.

Or get the paste to trace, cover it tightly, set it in a safe place at room temperature, and let it finish saponifying that way. It will take longer than if it is cooked, that's true, but it WILL fully saponify and make fine soap with zero fiddling and fussing.

The hours 'n hours of cook time have given liquid soap a bad reputation that is undeserved.

 

[Nanette]

I'm Never making liquid soap.

 

[Karen jw]

Haha Nanette. If you stick with a mixture of oils and not just pure olive oil, I'm pretty sure you won't have a problem. I just like to challenge myself haha.
And even though it has thrown up a couple of issues, I used some of the soap to make a dog flea shampoo using neem oil and some other essential oils. It left my two shihtzus so soft feeling that I decided to use some to wash my own hair. I'm very happy with the results. This was before I realised strange things were happening to the bottle

 

[Zany_in_CO]

Or get the paste to trace, cover it tightly, set it in a safe place at room temperature, and let it finish saponifying that way. It will take longer than if it is cooked, that's true, but it WILL fully saponify and make fine soap with zero fiddling and fussing.

@Nanette This is SO true, and easy peasy. One of the most difficult judgment calls for those who are new to making LS is whether or not they have cooked the paste long enough. Finishing saponification this way eliminates that problem. I know many soapers who use this method. I've done it myself. I just let it set for 2 weeks and I have a beautiful honey-colored neutral blob of soap ready to dilute.

 

[Karen jw]

Update.
The bottle is still doing weird things. Not worried any more it's stupidly flimsy. I'll use a better one next time.
As for what appeared to be free fat floating in the top.....
I added some more water.
The free fat appears to have actually been a very fine layer of bubbles trapped due to the high viscosity.
This makes total sense as there was no zap so the soap was done and the superfat was 0% so there shouldn't have been any free fat. I'm now very happy indeed with my successful liquid Castile soap.

Thank you everyone for your help and insight as well as some great advice that I'll be taking into my next batch and beyond.
Oh and next time I will use regular olive oil rather than extra virgin which should give me a better chance of producing a nice clear soap!