Laundry soap

[Earthen_Step]

I've read of people using citric acid mixed in with Borax and/or Baking soda with soap. Have any of you done so and is it worth doing? From what I have gathered it seems more worth it to make a fabric softener with citric acid.

I'm going to try and make a laundry soap soon and appreciate this thread, thanks to you all.

 

[Dahila]

would CO soap with 0 % superfat and addition of CA make a difference?

 

[AF_SOAP]

Citric acid would bring towards an acid on the pH scale. I think you would want more of a base to clean

 

[DeeAnna]

You're thinking about soap in an overly simplistic way. Soap acts as a buffer, meaning the addition of an acid to soap does not result in a direct lowering of pH. Things are happening to soap when acid is added ... that is a very true statement ... but a change in pH is not one of those happenings. As long as the soap is still mostly soap, adding an acid just splits the soap into fatty acids; it does not reduce the pH.

An analogy is melting ice -- the temp of an ice and water mixture will stay at 32 deg F (0 C) until all of the ice is melted. Until all of the the ice is melted, the temperature of the mixture will not rise. Only after all of the ice is melted can the temp rise.

Borax and baking soda are alkaline salts. Soap is an alkaline salt. Citric acid is an acid. Mixing citric acid with one or more of these alkaline salts will cause the salts to dissociate (break apart). Citric acid added to soap will create sodium citrate and fatty acids. The sodium citrate is not all bad -- it helps with soap scum if you have hard water -- but better to add sufficient lye to react with the citric acid directly, rather than allow the citric to mess your soap up. Or you can add sodium citrate directly as an additive if you have it on hand.

CITRIC ACID in Soap
Citric acid and Sodium hydroxide (NaOH) make Sodium citrate in soap
Typical dosage: 10 g citric acid for every 1,000 g oils (1% ppo). Range 0.1% to 3%.
10 g citric acid neutralizes 6.24 g NaOH
10 g citric acid neutralizes 8.42 g KOH

SODIUM CITRATE in soap
If dosage rate for citric acid is 1%, the equivalent dosage for sodium citrate is 1.3%

 

[girlishcharm2004]

An analogy is melting ice -- the temp of an ice and water mixture will stay at 32 deg F (0 C) until all of the ice is melted. Until all of the the ice is melted, the temperature of the mixture will not rise. Only after all of the ice is melted can the temp rise.

Most people I've met don't know that about ice water! I should've known you would.

 

[Earthen_Step]

You're thinking about soap in an overly simplistic way...

So what if the Citric Acid is added to a powdered blend of soap, borax and/or baking soda. Does that help remove the scum buildup and help clean laundry or create a more gentle washing overall? Would it be just as good or better to make a "fabric softener" with the citric acid?

 

[Dahila]

No, no, I thought about adding it to soap when making it. I mean laundry soap. Not to mix with powdered soap, I do not see the reason what it would do in powdered form. A week ago I made my first soap with CA adding an extra 8.5 g o lye (1400 g of oils) it is curing........we will see'
I wonder if CA can cause soap to set longer?

 

[Earthen_Step]

No, no, I thought about adding it to soap when making it. I mean laundry soap. Not to mix with powdered soap, I do not see the reason what it would do in powdered form. A week ago I made my first soap with CA adding an extra 8.5 g o lye (1400 g of oils) it is curing........we will see'
I wonder if CA can cause soap to set longer?

I've found a lot of recipes that include Citric Acid. Has anyone tried it or does anyone know why or why not it should be used? In my mind it seems like putting it in as a water solution fabric softener it would do just as good if not better. Am I wrong? I don't know enough about it.

Examples:
Ingredients:

1 5oz. bar castile soap, grated finely
1 c. washing soda
1/2 c. baking soda
1/2 c. citric acid
1/4 c. coarse sea salt

Directions:

Mix ingredients thoroughly. Store in airtight container.

To use:

Add 1-2 Tbs. of detergent to each load.
Recipe from here -- http://www.thankyourbody.com/diy-borax-free-laundry-detergent/

And many more:
http://www.thankyourbody.com/all-natural-diy-borax-free-dish-detergent/ (dish soap)
http://www.overthrowmartha.com/2014/03/how-to-make-borax-free-laundry-detergent.html
http://senselesshousewife.blogspot.com/2009/01/laundry-soap-research.html
http://www.soapqueen.com/bath-and-body-tutorials/home-crafts/three-diy-laundry-soap-recipes/
http://www.practicallyfunctional.com/homemade-borax-free-laundry-soap/
http://www.easy-home-made.com/homemade-laundry-soap.html
http://www.anniesplacetolearn.com/blog/diy-laundry-detergent

 

[blissfarmnaturals]

If you hot process the laundry soap, how long should it cure?

 

[Susie]

Citric acid is used for chelation for hard water, I think, in this context. Looks like it to me, anyway. If it was used afterward in the rinse, I would say it is to balance out the pH after the wash. I have soft water, and use white vinegar in a Downy ball for that.

blissfarmnaturals-I think folks grate CP and use it as soon as it is hard enough to unmold and cut. I would not, though, unless you zap test the CP, as this should be a 0% superfat soap and could still have some saponification to do until 48 hours has passed from the pour. Since you are doing HP, just check for zap before grating, and you should be fine as soon as you can unmold it.

 

[Seawolfe]

If you hot process the laundry soap, how long should it cure?

I've used it as soon as I unmolded, zap tested and grated it - within a week.

I have hard water, yet my basic CO oil soap with washing soda and borax works well. Although I do add vinegar to my rinse (where the fabric softener goes). Ive been afraid to add citric acid for fear of effectively upping the superfat.

 

[biarine]

Mine I used hot process but I still cured my laundry soap for 2-4 weeks. I have one batch, I made it 6 months ago. I keep the soap in cat food boxes ( recycle )

 

[DeeAnna]

Seawolfe -- Citric acid added as an after-wash rinse would work fine -- just like your vinegar -- but you are definitely right that citric acid added to your soap mix would cause problems.

I haven't researched it thoroughly, but my guess, if you wanted to use citric in your rinse rather than vinegar, you'd use about 1 gram of powdered citric acid to replace 1 ounce (about 30 g) of commercial vinegar at 5% acidity.

For the citric I have on hand (a fine powder), a level 1/4 teaspoon weighs about 1 gram. If your citric acid is granular or flaked, you'll want to double check that this conversion from weight (grams) to volume (teaspoons) is correct for your product.

If you use 1/2 cup vinegar (4 ounces) in your rinse, you'd sub 1 teaspoon of citric acid powder in the rinse compartment. It dissolves very easily in water.

 

[Dahila]

Thanks Deeanna, I use it exactly as seawolfe, Vinegar in rinse. I use it for over two years already) It is good you could exchange it for citric acid when you are short of vinegar. Thank you

 

[dosco]

Citric acid is used for chelation for hard water, I think, in this context. Looks like it to me, anyway. If it was used afterward in the rinse, I would say it is to balance out the pH after the wash. I have soft water, and use white vinegar in a Downy ball for that.

I am under the impression, after reading a bit on this site, that including the citric acid in the oils before saponification is to yield sodium citrate which is the chelator (?).

In a "soap" where citric acid has been added after the soap has been saponified, I'm not sure ... like you said, maybe pH reduction in the wash?

-Dave

 

[Dahila]

I am adding CA to cp soap to cut down on the soap scum

 

[The Efficacious Gentleman]

Last night I put a wash on, with some CA in the rinse tray. Will update on what difference I can see/feel when I get home.

 

[Susie]

I am under the impression, after reading a bit on this site, that including the citric acid in the oils before saponification is to yield sodium citrate which is the chelator (?).

In a "soap" where citric acid has been added after the soap has been saponified, I'm not sure ... like you said, maybe pH reduction in the wash?

-Dave

Adding citric acid to the oils before it becomes soap changes the pH and the superfat of your soap. This is not always desirable in laundry soap. You need to use DeeAnna's formula(post #44 of this thread) to do that.

 

[dosco]

Adding citric acid to the oils before it becomes soap changes the pH and the superfat of your soap. This is not always desirable in laundry soap. You need to use DeeAnna's formula(post #44 of this thread) to do that.

She explained it in a different post on another thread.

If you add the CA and enough lye to "neutralize" it, you can still have the soap superfatted (or not) the way you want it to be. Also I inferred from her post that if you add extra lye to neutralize the CA that the resulting soap will have a "normal pH" but wil have an extra salt in the finished product - sodium citrate.

-Dave

 

[Neve]

The laundry soap is going great by the way. Hubby ended up grating most of it.

My eucalyptus stain laundry bar mysteriously disappeared after one use. Luckily I had a second one in the cupboard but I would sure like the first one to show up. It works extremely well.

I might make more, I have to use up my lye solution before I move house.