Laundry Soap Question

[mommycarlson]

thank you earlene, so when I put my recipe through soapcalc, what do I choose for the lye concentration? I typically soap at 33%, but would that be appropriate with a 0% superfat? DeeAnna mentions 28-30% lye concentration.

 

[Scooter]

it appears than any lye heavy soap would be great for laundry because that particular soap is supposed to get whites really really white. Not sure how it treats colors, though.

Are there any types of clothes that should *not* be washed with your laundry butter? Or not pretreated with direct application of your laundry butter?

Thanks!

Scooter

 

[earlene]

thank you earlene, so when I put my recipe through soapcalc, what do I choose for the lye concentration? I typically soap at 33%, but would that be appropriate with a 0% superfat? DeeAnna mentions 28-30% lye concentration.

Mommycarlson, I just use the default but change the SF. CO soap hardens up so fast I don't do a higher lye concentration.

Are there any types of clothes that should *not* be washed with your laundry butter? Or not pretreated with direct application of your laundry butter?

Thanks!

Scooter

Scooter, so far I use it for all of our laundry. Someone here did report that they found the CO soaps to be a problem with their towels. They said it decreased the absorbency of their towels. I don't recall who it was said that, but have been keeping a close eye on my towels to see if I find this to be the case. As a precaution, I also periodically (maybe once every month or so) run the towels through the wash using the powdered soap I made since I still have some of it left from when I made it last.

Now, to be fair, when I say 'all of our laundry' I'd like to clarify that we don't wear or utilize a lot of delicate fabrics. But my husband's work uniforms are not 'harmed' or in any way negatively impacted by the laundry butter, and that's probably the most important-to-me indicator of what can be washed in whatever laundry soap I choose to use. Although the pants do eventually fade, over the course of the year, they don't seem to fade any worse than his co-worker's pants fade so it does not seem as though the laundry butter is any worse than whatever random laundry soap everyone else is using.

I've used it to pre-treat stains in a few instances and have not yet seen any negative impact from doing so. I know a few people here have mentioned using 0% CO oil soap as pre-treatment laundry sticks and therefore felt the laundry butter would be fine for pre-treating. Still, one must proceed with caution when trying something new, so a little testing or trepidation may be in order. So far, so good. I've only been making and using laundry butter for about 16 months now, so my experience with it is limited to those parameters I've mentioned.

FYI, there are recipes on the internet that include Fels Naptha as the soap for laundry butter, so it doesn't have to be made with CO oil soap. I had thought of trying a go at it with OO soap instead, especially after reading the thread about the Andalusian-style lye-heavy Castile. I also think using salted out soap would work well for laundry butter as well. But have yet to try either.

 

[mommycarlson]

Thank you earlene!

 

[Seawolfe]

Just a few more data points on the dry laundry detergent that I use (by volume 2 parts grated 0% SF CO soap : 1 part borax : 1 part washing soda):
- I bought some dry Ariel to compare, no difference noted. Not even on what few whites I have (I thought the blue granules might make a difference).
- I think the citric acid added to the soap really helps with dissolving
- My cotton towels are very absorbent. Recently switched to linen towels, they are fabulous. Our problem was the nasty fabric softener someone decided to use.
- As stated upstream, this is much easier to travel with and use for hand washing.

I would be interested in the laundry butter as a fun experiment though, and I feel like it would be a better stain rub. I must admit though, I don't see how basically the same recipe with 6 cups water added can take up less space than powder. But mine is just in a large coffee tub and lasts a year for the two of us (about 2-3 loads a week).

 

[DeeAnna]

"...I just use the default but change the SF. CO soap hardens up so fast I don't do a higher lye concentration...."

If the default you refer to is "38% water as % of oils," then your lye concentration is higher than you realize when making 100% CO soap -- a bit over 31%.

"...the CO soaps to be a problem with their towels ... decreased the absorbency..."

From reading between the lines when people tell stories like this, I'm pretty sure it's not the use of coconut oil soap per se. It's the very low amount of soap being added to each wash load -- it doesn't matter what kind of soap is being used; there's just not enough. Without enough soap to effectively clean, stuff is just building up in the fabric -- soap scum, body oils, etc. -- and fluffy towels will show the effects the fastest. The biggest culprits are the the laundry butters that have something like 1 bar of soap to multiple gallons of water, and people only a few tablespoons or less per load. It's wishful thinking to expect such a tiny bit of soap to do so much.

 

[earlene]

Seawolfe, thank you for your critique. I found that bit about towels quite helpful.

Do you add the CA to the CO soap when making it? I've never used CA in soap so don't have any experience how it works. I only recently started using EDTA and not in my CO soap for laundry because I didn't have it yet when I last made 0%CO soap.

Regarding space the laundry butter takes up vs. the powder. That's a good point. Maybe it just seems that way to me because of the way I store it. The laundry butter is in plastic mayonnaise jars in the cupboard above the washer with the doors closed, so less visible. The laundry powder is in a big old plastic coffee tub right next to the washer so more visible. Also I tended to make double and triple batches of the powder because it was such a messy process I wanted to decrease the frequency of making the mess involved. So maybe it's just my perception about it taking up less space than the powder.

But I know it takes up less space than the liquid laundry soap my SIL makes. She told me she makes a full 5 gallon bucket of the stuff and it uses a lot more water to make the liquid than the laundry butter. That's why she wanted to try the butter as it would take up less space.

 

[earlene]

"...I just use the default but change the SF. CO soap hardens up so fast I don't do a higher lye concentration...."

If the default you refer to is "38% water as % of oils," then your lye concentration is higher than you realize when making 100% CO soap -- a bit over 31%.

"...the CO soaps to be a problem with their towels ... decreased the absorbency..."

From reading between the lines when people tell stories like this, I'm pretty sure it's not the use of coconut oil soap per se. It's the very low amount of soap being added to each wash load -- it doesn't matter what kind of soap is being used; there's just not enough. Without enough soap to effectively clean, stuff is just building up in the fabric -- soap scum, body oils, etc. -- and fluffy towels will show the effects the fastest. The biggest culprits are the the laundry butters that have something like 1 bar of soap to multiple gallons of water, and people only a few tablespoons or less per load. It's wishful thinking to expect such a tiny bit of soap to do so much.

Thank you, DeeAnna. So far I haven't run across the non-absorbency issue with out bath towels, but I keep watching for it.

So with the homemade dry soap powder I also used the same amount of soap - 1-2 T per load and did that for many many years. Is the amount of actual soap per load less or more than with laundry butter, do you think? I'm guessing it's pretty close to the same.

Also, there's not a lot of water in my washer. I haven't used a regular top-loading full tub of water type of washing machine in well over 15 years unless I am traveling and even then HE washers are more common even in laundromats. I am wondering how much difference an HE (low water consumption) washer makes when using less soap.

I'm just curious how they compare in terms of equal amounts of actual soap and how the amount of water for mixing the soap per load is effected when it's a high-efficiency machine that uses less water to begin with.

Of course I may not be thinking clearly today, or this week for that matter. My husband brought home a cold, courtesy of the flying public, and my brain may be a bit fuzzy atm.

 

[DeeAnna]

"... Is the amount of actual soap per load less or more than with laundry butter, do you think?..."

I have no idea. Recipes vary widely; you'll have to do the math for yours.

What I found from looking at the more extreme versions of the laundry butter recipes out in blogger-land is that people are being unrealistic about this whole thing. I'm not saying YOU are being unrealistic, Earlene. Nothing of the sort. But I am saying some of the recipes are based more on magical thinking about getting something for almost nothing, rather than based on a realistic desire to get clothes reliably clean. Just think about the amount of dilution some laundry butter recipes call for and how little of the stuff that people use per load. Small wonder their laundry starts getting weird.

 

[Scooter]

Speaking of citric acid/sodium citrate, are chelators in general a worthwhile thing for a homemade laundry soap mix as the ones earlene and Seawolfe describe? I'm thinking in terms of preventing soap scum buildup in clothes or in the washer itself.

Also, do the butter or liquid versions of this recipe clean better than a powdered version in cold water? I'm wonder if there are any issues with some of these powders dissolving in cold water.

Thanks!

Scooter

 

[DeeAnna]

No, chelators are not as helpful against soap scum in the laudry as they can be when used in bath soap. There is a lot more water in the washing machine tub in proportion to the amount of soap mix, so the chelator you might have in the laundry soap is tiny in comparison to the amount of hard water minerals it has to deal with.

Washing soda (or borax) is going to be more helpful, which is why it is often found in commercial laundry products as well as homemade versions. Washing soda reacts with hard water minerals so the soap doesn't. It also builds the alkalinity of the wash water so the soap is more effective.

As far as a liquid or butter type of mix being more effective ... it depends. If your dry soap mix is finely powdered and is fast dissolving, it works fine.

 

[earlene]

Also, do the butter or liquid versions of this recipe clean better than a powdered version in cold water? I'm wonder if there are any issues with some of these powders dissolving in cold water.

Thanks!

Scooter

Scooter, I never liked my powdered soap with cold water, but I didn't like pulverizing it either because it created such a massive amount of soap dust that I really didn't want to breath.

So, in that respect it wasn't a good choice for cold water washing, especially in an HE washer that uses less water. It seemed fine in the old top loader that used lots of water, but I haven't used one of those in a very long time. Even in warm water it had to be pretty finely ground up to dissolve and not leave the solid bits of grated soap in the soap dispenser compartment. If added directly into the washer cavity it was fine, but in a front loading washer adding the soap directly into the tub is less common.

Personally, having just folded and put away a big load of laundry that started out pretty darned dirty, I do believe the soap I currently use cleans very well in warm water followed by two cold water rinses. I always use a double rinse cycle because soap build up creates hard/brittle soap build up in clothes and towels making them stiff. My laundry is nice and soft and I never use any fabric softeners or dryer sheets. I am pretty happy with how clean and soft our laundry gets. I rarely use cold water for the actual wash cycle, so perhaps I can't answer your question sufficiently in regards to dissolution.

Regarding the double rinsing cycles that I use, it is the result of some research I did a long time ago about how hotel towels are cleaned. I read an article written by a hotel laundry manager that stated that two of the worst problems for towels is soap build up caused by excessive use of soap coupled with insufficient rinsing. I decided to try what he suggested by using less soap and double rinsing. I became convinced that he was correct simply by making that change. I wish I could find the article so I could give him credit, but it was years ago and I have been unable to find it again.

 

[Scooter]

Personally, having just folded and put away a big load of laundry that started out pretty darned dirty, I do believe the soap I currently use cleans very well in warm water followed by two cold water rinses.

Earlene and DeeAnna Thanks for all the feedback. This is all very helpful, by the way earlene I use an HE washer, too, these days so it is good to know how you use this in yours.

 

[DeeAnna]

Just for the record, I'm just starting my 20th year of using an HE machine.

 

[ContentedKyrie]

DeeAnna, I didn't have any injury. I put the soap batter into the silicone cake bundt pan I have. I found the first time I made the soap at 110º (lye and oil), that it gelled rather quickly (as to be expected, but my first batch, it was surprising) and went out of the container, cooled and cracked. Each time I made batches, no matter the container, there was the uprising and/or spilling, and then cooling and cracking. I finally thought to just have everything room temperature and this helped tremendously. I also tend to make triple batches (meaning 1500 g of oil) which can make easily 5+ pounds of soap. I have also used a silicone bread pan, silicone candy molds, etc. I found that the smaller the amount (such as the 1/2 to 1-ounce candy molds) did not have the volcano effect. I then wait until the soap cools a bit and hardens somewhat but not as hard as if it were cooled and has not completed saponification to cut it. Cutting soap so hard that one has to use a diamond saw and still worry about ruining the blade is a bit daunting. (I'm exaggerating to illustrate the humor of cutting soap - I do have a nephew I sent a heart-shaped 12-13 ounce soap to once who used a saw to cut the soap).
I shred my soap sometimes using a smallish cheese shredder. It is about 1 or 2 steps up from a zester for lemons. Other times I just leave it until I need it in the brick form. I have found that the sample sizes are great for washing hands. The soap isn't so hard that it eats the hands unless I am hand washing multiple laundry items at a time. I did find that when this soap is used for washing hands (such as when at work) where there is water softeners being used, that it feels like it isn't rinsing off properly. However, when one learns to ignore that feeling, one also finds that one no longer needs lotions.
I have used it as shampoo, but I don't want to be held responsible if anyone else does and finds it too harsh for them. Because it is straight coconut oil, it can be drying if used too often and not rotated with other homemade shampoos. I also don't use it for bathing. I stick with the 100% olive oil soaps for that. I do have a recipe my husband likes with tallow (I processed my own after a visit to a butcher shop - ended up with easily 8 gallons of tallow), coconut oil and olive oil. I'm still a beginner in my mind.

 

[Nao]

So much great information!