Lard V no Lard

[reinbeau]

It's 'piggy' because they're rendering it at high heat. It's that simple. I won't beat a horse other than to say to each their own. I enjoy lard and tallow in my soap, my customers do, and I know many, many soapers who will say the same. We can get lard, we can render it if we're fortunate enough to have a local source, and really we shouldn't be made to feel we're making an inferior product because of what we use. Did you know why Castile soap came about? Because the superior animal fats used in soap were reserved for the upper class and peasants had to use olive oil. Really. But now we can ignore all that class stuff and just enjoy making soap with anything that strikes our fancy. I truly despise Castile soap. Others love it. C'est la vie.

 

[IrishLass]

I've been an enthusiastic lardinator going on for about about 9 years now.

I remember well my first successful lard formula..... For an experiment, I made 2 identical soap formulas, the only difference between the two was that I used lard in the one and palm oil in the other. The lard version won hands-down amongst me and my circle of family/friends. It's hard to explain, but compared with the palm version, the lather of the lard version had more of a 3-dimensional creamy depth or body, or 'oomph' to it, if you will. The lather of palm version seemed more flat or 2-dimensional.

Re: the oft talked-about piggy smell: Not once have I ever gotten a piggy smell from any of my lard batches in all the years I've been using lard. All that my peeps and I are able to smell in my lard soap is the FO..... even with the batch I accidentally overheated to 160F while melting it (due to being momentarily distracted). No oinkiness in the finished soap at all. For what it's worth, I've used both the Armour brand and also SnoCap brand and both have worked well for me without oinkiness.

Over the years I've been a part of many threads/discussions on on a few of the different soaping forums in regards to the piggy-smell issue that some folks experience and many others don't, and based on all of the experiences I've had the pleasure to read to date, I've become convinced that there may be more to the story than merely 'Brand X' is better than 'Brand Z' or 'soaping temperature A' is better than 'soaping temperature B' (although those can play a part as well)........

What I'm on about is that I think the scent receptors in our individual noses play a bigger part than we may realize, because many of the folks in those discussions who could smell the oinkiness in their soap, gave their oinkie soap to their hubbies or to their friends and family members for their opinions, and time and time again, the reports came back that no oinkiness could be detected by many of those that were given the suspect bars of soap. Some could smell it, but others could only smell the FO.

The same kind of thing goes on with the scent of jasmine. To some it smells disgustingly like cat-pee, and to others it smells like the beautiful, sweet flower that it is.

To my SIL, skunk spray smells like freshly squeezed lemons. She rolls the windows down in the car and breathes deeply whenever we pass a dead skunk in the road, while the rest of us are turning blue from holding our breath.


IrishLass

 

[Arthur Dent]

To my SIL, skunk spray smells like freshly squeezed lemons. She rolls the windows down in the car and breathes deeply whenever we pass a dead skunk in the road, while the rest of us are turning blue from holding our breath.

Exactly! Like my brother. To him skunk smells like chocolate. Seriously.
And to me, sometimes skunk smells like coffee, and vise versa.

 

[BrewerGeorge]

I think Irish is right that some smell it more than others.

I suppose I should be clear, too, since I was critical. I don't find the lard smell especially offensive; it just smells like lard to me. It reminds me of my grandmother's cooking actually, so it's not bad. But it IS pervasive when it's there.

 

[lenarenee]

You could do that but i think people in the forum have discovered that after all the work the amount of fat you get at the end is much, much more expensive than excellent quality OO.

In 1884 lever bros started making soap from palm and vegetable oil rather than tallow or lard. That's when the modern industrial soap revolution took off because the product was so much nicer. The old ways aren't necessarily the best.[/QUOTE

Okay, I'm a lardinator. But as a lover of any good handmade bar of soap I'm happy to let makers choose their own ingredients. But your statement makes me wonder who said that soap was suddenly better after 1884, how was it proven that the veggie soaps were "better", were the animal fats improperly stored (refrigeration in 1884??) therefore reduced quality of animal fat soap? Or was there some manufacturing process that improved the quality of soap that just happened to coincide with the switch from animal fats to veggie? Was lye more pure? Was calculating lye more exacting?

Yeah, the more I think about it. Animals fats versus veggie isn't an indicator of soap quality. Either fat can be of good or poor quality - which affects the outcome. After that, it boils down to preference.

 

[lenarenee]

I think Irish is right that some smell it more than others.

I suppose I should be clear, too, since I was critical. I don't find the lard smell especially offensive; it just smells like lard to me. It reminds me of my grandmother's cooking actually, so it's not bad. But it IS pervasive when it's there.

If you need more guarantee of getting scentless lard, try Fannie and Flo on etsy. It's definitely more expensive, but you can contact them and ask for their less than "prime" lard which they sell about half the cost. It's still perfectly good food grade lard, but not as white. I haven't detected any scent so far in 2 years of ordering it. YMMV though.

Weird thing is, I found myself pulling a plain unscented bar of soap out, sniffed it and thought - lard. Flipped it over to look at my label - it was a bastille of oo, co, castor. Made me wonder if fat/oils just get to the point where they smell like fats/oils.

 

[Rune]

Is it impossible in the Scandinavian countries and Australia to get pork fat from a butcher and render your own lard? It's how my grandma made soap back in the day

Thank you for the idea! I have never thought of it. But yes, that should definately not be impossible. In fact, we have a big meat factory in the nearest town, just 30 kilometers away from here. So they will definately have a lot of lard. Creativity in sourcing is the thing here, yes. So a big thank you!

I'm not 100% sure if I want to use lard, though. Not that I'm vegan or anything, but I don't know. I have to do some research on palm. Maybe that's not that bad after all. I read something Brambleberry wrote on palm and what the alternatives are, and that made me think. So I have to do my own research. Palm is available as vegetable ghee from immigrant shops. I don't remember if it is 100% palm. But I bought ghee once, and it was so rock hard it was impossible to get out of the box. Almost as hard as a candle, if not just that hard.

Yesterday I was looking all over the internet to see if I could find coconut and other types of harder fat from a norwegian seller, that sold in bulk for lower prices. Industrial quality, not health food quality. I found, but they sold only to businesses. I have to call them, maybe they can sell to me a small amount. But suddenly came to think, we actually have a BIG bakery where I live! I mean a big industrial bakery that delivers to grocery stores in the region. I might be able to buy some this and that from them. And they are in walking distance from where I live.

So yes, I guess many thing are available, but not that obvious in your face at grocery stores.

I bought olive oil and coconut fat yesterday at the grocery store, because I was planning to make soap. But I could not find out how to do it and/or decide on HP or CP for an oatmeal, milk, honey soap with palm stearin (a candle, yes I know...) and maximum water discount, so no soap yesterday. But the olive oil used to be cheap, and still is relatively cheap. But they have upped the price on their cheapest olive with 40%!!! Yes, 40% just like that, boom. That was in one shop, and in the other the price was upped a lot as well, but I don't remember the new price. But it was around 40 something. But luckily it is still not very expensive. I think something have happened in the European olive oil market. Maybe season, too much demand or who knows.

 

[biarine]

Anyone did use goose fat in soaping because I got 500 g but I never try them.

 

[penelopejane]

Okay, I'm a lardinator. But as a lover of any good handmade bar of soap I'm happy to let makers choose their own ingredients. But your statement makes me wonder who said that soap was suddenly better after 1884, how was it proven that the veggie soaps were "better", were the animal fats improperly stored (refrigeration in 1884??) therefore reduced quality of animal fat soap? Or was there some manufacturing process that improved the quality of soap that just happened to coincide with the switch from animal fats to veggie? Was lye more pure? Was calculating lye more exacting?
.

I've read a couple of books now that said soap took off then. Maybe it was the process that made nice bars of soap or the industrialisation of the process that made soap affordable for the masses, I don't know. Maybe home made soap didn't have much FO and the commercial one did.

Animal fats haven't been dismissed! Tallow is a common ingredient in Oz soaps.

I think they perfected the technique in 1884 that helped soap become popular.

 

[BrewerGeorge]

...
Animal fats haven't been dismissed! Tallow is a common ingredient in Oz soaps. I think they perfected the technique in 1884 that helped make it become popular.

Tallow is also the main ingredient in most mass-market soaps in the US. Irish Spring, Ivory, Zest (which was syndet when I was a kid...), Dial, and Lever all have Tallowate as one of the top 3 ingredients.

 

[SparksnFlash]

Tallow is also the main ingredient in most mass-market soaps in the US. Irish Spring, Ivory, Zest (which was syndet when I was a kid...), Dial, and Lever all have Tallowate as one of the top 3 ingredients.

My guess is they learned to advertise better and selling off the glycerin made soap cheaper for the general population to purchase.

 

[cherrycoke216]

Palm is available as vegetable ghee from immigrant shops. I don't remember if it is 100% palm. But I bought ghee once, and it was so rock hard it was impossible to get out of the box. Almost as hard as a candle, if not just that hard.







I bought olive oil and coconut fat yesterday at the grocery store, because I was planning to make soap. But I could not find out how to do it and/or decide on HP or CP for an oatmeal, milk, honey soap with palm stearin (a candle, yes I know...) and maximum water discount, so no soap yesterday. But the olive oil used to be cheap, and still is relatively cheap. But they have upped the price on their cheapest olive with 40%!!! Yes, 40% just like that, boom. That was in one shop, and in the other the price was upped a lot as well, but I don't remember the new price. But it was around 40 something. But luckily it is still not very expensive. I think something have happened in the European olive oil market. Maybe season, too much demand or who knows.

Rune, be sure to check ingredient list of the vegetable ghee. Sometimes it can be hydrogenated soy bean oil, Palm, or palm kernel oil...etc.

 

[Obsidian]

Anyone did use goose fat in soaping because I got 500 g but I never try them.

I used duck fat at 10%. Not sure if it added anything to the soap, its been awhile since I tried a bar. Was neat using a fat from a animal that I helped raise and butcher though.

 

[biarine]

I used duck fat at 10%. Not sure if it added anything to the soap, its been awhile since I tried a bar. Was neat using a fat from a animal that I helped raise and butcher though.

I like ducks, my father raise ducks too.

 

[Dahila]

I use lard 25% , tallow 20 % and my soaps never stink like animal fat, Tons of people sniff on them, no one complained , even on the unscented ones

 

[SunRiseArts]

That link is from the North American Olive Oil Association. As importers and purveyors of imported olive oil, they have a vested interest in discrediting the California Olive Oil Commission at UC Davis. So as not to be duped, it might be better to use an independent source such as Business Insider, June 2017:
http://www.businessinsider.com/where-how-to-buy-real-extra-virgin-olive-oil-2017-6

I've been following this fraud on the American public ever since I lost 6 months of sales due to adulterated olive oil in 2007. It wasn't until the owner of Soapers Choice stepped in and offered to test my OO that I finally learned about "fake olive oil". I sent in two samples, one from a reliable local supplier and one from a gallon tin I bought from a Natural Food Store. Both tested as having the same SAP value as soy oil!

I could write ad nauseam about this subject but this isn't the time or topic of this thread... sorry for the hijack everyone.

I posted an article about this a while back, but it had no traction. I completely understand what you are saying about the OO.

 

[Susie]

Exactly! Like my brother. To him skunk smells like chocolate. Seriously.
And to me, sometimes skunk smells like coffee, and vise versa.

Smells like coffee to me, too, once it is the least bit old, that is. Fresh skunk smell still smells like skunk.

 

[Britannic]

Most of my soaps are made from recipes containing over 25% lard. I superfat very low, since I'm skin sensitive to unsaponified lard and have made many unscented batches for family and friends. I regularly ask for feedback and no one has detected any "piggy" smell in the soap. My nose can detect some "off" odours, when others can't, like fish when it is more than a few hours old. I have detected a slight "off" odour in my lard based soaps that lets me know it is in it, but even that is usually gone after a few months in storage. No one else I know can smell the slight "off" odour in my soaps, so I don't worry about it. As Irish Lass says, the lard gives a wonderful, rich luxuriant creamy lather in a good recipe and it doesn't add extra drying in the soap like tallow or palm oil. My lard based soaps are the most popular I make. YMMV.

 

[biarine]

My husband called me a blood hound because I can smell a lot of things. Even I can smell when he had a crohn's attack. I remembered I made 50% lard, 20% coconut, 20% olive oil and 10% castor oil. I scented it with vetiver EO as my favourite but when I using it I can't stand the scent ( blend of lardy and the earthiness of vetiver) It made my stomach rotates. But my husband and my friends like it so much and they can't smell the lardy at all. Believe me I am porkaholic I love pork so much mostly the belly pork but I can't stand the smell of lard, I am odd I think . But I will try to make lard soap again but I will scented it with spices and citrus such as, coriander, lemongrass, cardamom, cumin and sweet orange. Because when I cook my belly pork I use a lot of spices and smell delicious without porky smell.

 

[IrishLass]

My husband called me a blood hound because I can smell a lot of things. Even I can smell when he had a crohn's attack. I remembered I made 50% lard, 20% coconut, 20% olive oil and 10% castor oil. I scented it with vetiver EO as my favourite but when I using it I can't stand the scent ( blend of lardy and the earthiness of vetiver) It made my stomach rotates. But my husband and my friends like it so much and they can't smell the lardy at all.

Your nose sounds a lot like my Hubby's. I often say he has a bionic nose and I sometimes jokingly ask him if he's sure he's not pregnant, because the super ability with which he is able to detect smells that other's cannot, rivals the amazingly enhanced sensitivity that my own nose developed back when I was pregnant with our son. Thankfully, soon after I gave birth my enhanced nasal super-powers gradually faded away and went back to normal (it was way too enhanced for my liking).

Anyway- his amazing super 'bionic' nose is not able to smell any piggy in my lard soaps. I normally use lard @ 25%, but I've used it as high as 65% (Susie's recipe) without any piggy coming through to him.


IrishLass