Lard & Tallow soaps

[soapmaker]

I made a lard soap for a friend who is allergic to coconut. Recipe 75% lard, 20% OO, 5% castor. It is very nourishing/conditioning and lasts a long time but not a great sudser. Reading on here I find that tallow is cleansing (unlike what I find other places) and bubbly, but all the recipes contain coconut oil. I ran a 30% lard, 30% tallow, 32% olive or sunflower and 8% castor through Soapee and didn't get what I expected. Bubbly is 10, cleansing is 3! I thought tallow would increase cleansing as well as bubbles.

 

[dixiedragon]

I haven't done a blind comparison, nor have I made soap with tallow and no lard. (I have made 25% tallow 25% lard). It seems like a general consensus is that tallow is a bit harsher/more cleansing than lard.

I think what you are looking for (correct me if I'm wrong) is a sudsier coconut-free recipe. You can try babassu or palm kernel (NOT palm) oil instead of coconut, but since they are also in the palm family with coconut, your friend might be allergic to them as well.

Stick with 5% castor, and maybe try adding some sugar (honey counts as sugar also) to boost lather. You may also try dropping the superfat to below 5%.

 

[soapmaker]

I haven't done a blind comparison, nor have I made soap with tallow and no lard. (I have made 25% tallow 25% lard). It seems like a general consensus is that tallow is a bit harsher/more cleansing than lard.

I think what you are looking for (correct me if I'm wrong) is a sudsier coconut-free recipe. You can try babassu or palm kernel (NOT palm) oil instead of coconut, but since they are also in the palm family with coconut, your friend might be allergic to them as well.

Stick with 5% castor, and maybe try adding some sugar (honey counts as sugar also) to boost lather. You may also try dropping the superfat to below 5%.

I add sugar to every recipe, sorry I just put in the oils. I also use colloidal oats and SL. Yes she is alergic to palm also and so many other things. I know she is good with lard and tallow. What would the addition of tallow do in my first recipe? I also thought the general consensus was that tallow gave bubbly lather. Yes I would like to make it sudsier.

 

[lindakschickens]

I have made a lard and tallow soap with sugar,castor oil,sweet almond oil and apritcot kernel oil I find it creamy but it has a good lather. Like others have said babbassu I hear it works good I know there are others but can't think of them off the top of my head. But tallow and lard do make nice bars and sugar added to the water before the lye does work well with castor oil in the mix.

 

[lenarenee]

Tallow does make some large bubbles, but nothing like babassu, coconut or palm kernel.

You could use tallow at a higher percentage to get more bubbles, but I recommend using some oils that add to creaminess like Shea butter, avocado. I think tallow bubbles tend to be thin.

You mentioned cleansing levels; the term is a misnomer. The term could be replaced with the word stripping (removing natural oils from skin). Soap cleans even if it's 0.

 

[soapmaker]

Tallow does make some large bubbles, but nothing like babassu, coconut or palm kernel.

You could use tallow at a higher percentage to get more bubbles, but I recommend using some oils that add to creaminess like Shea butter, avocado. I think tallow bubbles tend to be thin.

You mentioned cleansing levels; the term is a misnomer. The term could be replaced with the word stripping (removing natural oils from skin). Soap cleans even if it's 0.

Sure, I could use some avocado to replace some of the OO or sunflower. I think lard makes it creamy. Nice to unmask the misnomer. I always personally thought my 100% OO castile cleaned me and also it's a wonderful stain remover.

 

[Moose Wrangler]

You might consider replacing the olive oil with almond oil. Single oil tests seem to show almond oil does great with bubbles and lather (despite soapcalc showing 0). It obviously won't be the same as what CO would get you but it seems like some have found it impressive based on what they expected.

 

[cmzaha]

My go to recipe is 45 tallow, 25 lard, 5 castor, 10-15 soft oil such as Canola HO, which does add lather, Avo does not add to lather, and palm or a butter for the balance. I have problems with dos in high lard soaps but not at these percentages.

 

[lenarenee]

My go to recipe is 45 tallow, 25 lard, 5 castor, 10-15 soft oil such as Canola HO, which does add lather, Avo does not add to lather, and palm or a butter for the balance. I have problems with dos in high lard soaps but not at these percentages.

It (shea butter, avocado) adds to the creamy lather, not the large bubble lather. I think of the two as different components of lather. The creamy aspect of tallow lather is so thin that I don't even consider it to be creamy. (as for lard...it makes thick, voluminous creamy lather that pops up as the large bubbles in a low coconut oil soap start to fade. Very satisfying to watch).

Oh! Soapmaker - have you considered that perhaps some issue with the lathering of your soap might be from hard water (if you have it)? Using a chelator can help.

 

[soapmaker]

It (shea butter, avocado) adds to the creamy lather, not the large bubble lather. I think of the two as different components of lather. The creamy aspect of tallow lather is so thin that I don't even consider it to be creamy. (as for lard...it makes thick, voluminous creamy lather that pops up as the large bubbles in a low coconut oil soap start to fade. Very satisfying to watch).

Oh! Soapmaker - have you considered that perhaps some issue with the lathering of your soap might be from hard water (if you have it)? Using a chelator can help.

Yes, you have described what I meant. My first recipe above^^^is a low creamy lather and I thought by adding tallow I would get large bubble lather and therefore have both. But soapee.com disagrees. And no we don't have hard water, we have a water softener. If I use a bath pouf, I get lots of lather but if I just wash my hands, it's creamy.

 

[soapmaker]

I haven't done a blind comparison, nor have I made soap with tallow and no lard. (I have made 25% tallow 25% lard). It seems like a general consensus is that tallow is a bit harsher/more cleansing than lard.

I think what you are looking for (correct me if I'm wrong) is a sudsier coconut-free recipe. You can try babassu or palm kernel (NOT palm) oil instead of coconut, but since they are also in the palm family with coconut, your friend might be allergic to them as well.

Stick with 5% castor, and maybe try adding some sugar (honey counts as sugar also) to boost lather. You may also try dropping the superfat to below 5%.

I'm wondering if you say stick to 5% castor because 8% might feel sticky?

 

[Susie]

I am not Carolyn, but I stick to 5% castor oil because I find no benefit to increasing it. I do not find stickiness until above 8%. Castor makes bubbles last longer, it really does not increase the bubbles in any of my experiments. And since it costs more than my other "base" oils, 5% is what I use.

 

[dixiedragon]

I'm wondering if you say stick to 5% castor because 8% might feel sticky?

Yes, and I think that over say 10% castor actually hinders lather, from what I've read. If you'd like, you can try a small test batch - maybe you will love 10% castor. I think it's generally agreed here that 5% is the "sweet spot".

Also, I think that sunflower works with olive to help boost lather, so I'd suggest a combination of those two. I actually use something like 10% each of olive, rice bran and sunflower in my base recipe.

 

[soapmaker]

Thank you to all who have given their views on this!

 

[cmzaha]

Oops in my above I forgot to add that I use 15-17% CO sometimes less depending if it is a facial bar. My choice of soft oils are Sunflower HO, Canola HO, Safflower HO and Avocado. All lend some creaminess along with the 25% lard and Canola HO is an oil that bubbles nicely. I never go over 5% castor and many time drop it to 3% in my quick tracing vegan recipe. Castor does moderately accelerate trace. I also like to split CO with PKO

 

[BrewerGeorge]

IIRC, I think the "cleaning" number in the calculators is just the sum of the lauric and myristic numbers.

 

[lsg]

Have you tried using sugar or sodium lactate in your soap recipe?

 

[soapmaker]

Have you tried using sugar or sodium lactate in your soap recipe?

As stated I use sugar in every recipe. But no I've never tried sodium lactate.

 

[beckster51]

I would really recommend adding about 10% canola oil to your recipe if you want more bubbles. I cannot use CO because I am allergic to it, and my best soaps (for me) have lard, babassu, or PKO in them. Adding a small amount of CO gives you those big bubbles that are so satisfying. People say that CO makes DOS, but that has not been my experience. It is a soft oil, but it really worth it to me for the bubble factor.

 

[soapmaker]

Have you tried using sugar or sodium lactate in your soap recipe?

Big Correction: Isg I don't know where my head was but I was reading sodium lactate and thinking something else. Yes, I use both sugar and sodium lactate in every recipe. But with sodium lactate I don't use the recommended amount because I'm afraid of hindering lather.