Lard, Tallow, and GV shortening

[MissLunaB]

So I'm a couple of batches in now and I wanted to try some suggestions/ideas/searches regarding tallow (read I ran out of tallow and it's going to be a while before I get more XD).
I've made two batches so far with GV shortening and since I've taken them out of the mold I'm a little disappointed. With tallow (as this may have be beginners luck) my bars came out a nice creamy white, the GV bars look a little sickly (didn't completely gel either, which I'm confused about but that's another issue).
I'm also starting to notice tiny orange specks on some bars(which I'm poking out with a toothpick) and that got me thinking. With regards to each ingredient, tallow, lard, and GV shortening, I know each can change the creaminess factor of each soap and one can be more drying than the other, but, can one go more rancid than the other quicker? Also can the smell (I can still smell pig) of the ingredient linger longer than others?
I'm shelving these bars for 6 months and see what becomes of them and place an order with soaper's choice/etsy for some tallow (Essential Depo gets too pricey) as I've gotten to spoiled by it's magic. I will still use up my tubs of lard and shortening but I also wonder what soap applications work better for them? Are there ingredients that work better than others and that make luxurious bars? Or is that an experiment in all of its self?
Oh, I should point out, I was using the same recipe I've been using since day one(ran through soapee of course).
Thanks

 

[lsg]

Are you using GV all-vegetable shortening or the GV shortening with beef tallow? I seem to remember that these products contain soy oil, which can contribute to DOS. I buy Armour lard from Walmart and have never had a problem with an off smell in my soap.

 

[MissLunaB]

I use the GV shortening, with the animal fats, stuff is a pain to find in my area XD Soy oil? Now I need to go check

 

[toxikon]

I've never used GV shortening, but I've been comparing lard (40%) bars vs. lard + tallow (25% / 25%) bars.

I bought my tallow from Soaper's Choice ($11.55 for 7lbs) and I buy Armor brand lard from Walmart.

The lard bars are really nice and creamy and bubbly, but I find they get a bit soft and squishy in the shower.

The lard + tallow bars aren't as creamy, but the bubbles are great and they seem to be staying a lot firmer in the shower.

So I think going forward, I will stick with lard + tallow for my recipes. I'm going to experiment with some tallow bars (maybe 40%) and see how I like those too.

 

[MissLunaB]

That's my next step, going with a lard/tallow mix. I'm also experimenting with goat milk(aloe will be eventually down the road) so that might help the creamy factor as well

 

[Arthur Dent]

That's odd. I tried a batch with the GV animal fat combination and really liked it. I used one of the recipes suggested by Susie, it's my new favorite.

 

[MissLunaB]

Are you using GV all-vegetable shortening or the GV shortening with beef tallow? I seem to remember that these products contain soy oil, which can contribute to DOS. I buy Armour lard from Walmart and have never had a problem with an off smell in my soap.

So I grabbed my container and I'm a bit miffed, it says" prepared from meat fats & vegetable oils with mono and diglycerides",so probably soy oil, welp let see what happens in 6 months. Now I don't want to use it anymore so how bad is soy oil for DOS?

 

[MorpheusPA]

While I can't get GV, I can get VT (Valu Time), which is essentially the same stuff.

Way back when, I found the listing somewhere for what's actually in it, and GV is probably nearly identical. VT is 96-98% tallow, and 2-4% partially hydrogenated (27.5%) soybean oil. It contains BHA as a preservative in the PPM range.

At that level of hydrogenation, soybean oil isn't nearly as likely to develop DOS. The riskier fatty acids are all transformed.

Even if they mixed in unprocessed soybean oil at 4%, it's still not much risk for DOS. That's a very low level of soy.

I don't know if the BHA survives the oil heating and soaping process. If so, should also help confound DOS for a period of time.

Personally, I've been using VT animal shortening for quite some time, and never had an issue with it. High percentages of tallow are actually my favorite bars!

 

[cmzaha]

I've never used GV shortening, but I've been comparing lard (40%) bars vs. lard + tallow (25% / 25%) bars.

I bought my tallow from Soaper's Choice ($11.55 for 7lbs) and I buy Armor brand lard from Walmart.

The lard bars are really nice and creamy and bubbly, but I find they get a bit soft and squishy in the shower.

The lard + tallow bars aren't as creamy, but the bubbles are great and they seem to be staying a lot firmer in the shower.

So I think going forward, I will stick with lard + tallow for my recipes. I'm going to experiment with some tallow bars (maybe 40%) and see how I like those too.

Try a 45/25 tallow/lard 5% castor and whatever you want for the remainder and I bet you love it, which is my go to tallow base

 

[toxikon]

Try a 45/25 tallow/lard 5% castor and whatever you want for the remainder and I bet you love it, which is my go to tallow base

Ooh, sounds nice! I'll definitely try that.

 

[earlene]

Might I suggest this article by Dr. Kevin Dunn, on DOS and how different additives and combinations thereof can prevent DOS development.

I use a combination of ROE and EDTA, although he also found in his experiments that a combination of BHT and EDTA work well together as well, but the best combination was BHT and Sodium Citrate together.

I mention this because of your orange spots and that you are already have BHT in at least one of your oils. But like you, I also found that sometimes using GV shortening (and no other additive to prevent DOS), I got DOS in that soap. So for me, I concluded that BHT alone is not enough to prevent DOS and I wasn't really impressed with the GV shortening as an ingredient in the soap anyway. I also don't much like soy oil in soap, but would definitely use the ROE and EDTA combo for any soap made with soy.

 

[Obsidian]

I've use GV shortening a few times in place of lard and so far, not had any issues with DOS. What I do get DOS from is high OO or any amount of canola.

 

[BrewerGeorge]

The word on the street has been that the GV shortening was tallow and palm, not tallow and soy.

The ingredients I have found are these: Beef Tallow, Palm Oil, Vegetable Mono- and Diglycerides, BHA, Propyl Gallate and Citric Acid Added To Protect Flavor, Dimethylpolysiloxane, An Anti-Foaming Agent Added

It's one of my favorite things to make soap from, personally.

 

[earlene]

I have only used the all vegetable GV shortening and it does contain soy, as listed on the side of the container. The Walmarts near where I live don't even stock the tallow versions of GV shortening. I have yet to ever use tallow in soap because I have yet to see it in a store near me and haven't felt a desire to seek it out to try it. Of course being a vegetarian limits my desire to seek it out also.

I did see upon a Google search that Walmart also makes a GV shortening containing Cottonseed oil as well, but I have not seen it in any of the Walmarts near where I live either. So perhaps there are other formulas they produce that are available in other areas that some of us may not have seen. I have actually seen cans in Walmart stores NOT near where I live that listed ingredients as 'meat fats' and I would not buy that because, 1. I am vegetarian, so wouldn't cook with it, and 2. for soap that is just too vague for an accurate SAP value, IMO.


Oh, and a correction from my former post: The GV shortening contains BHA, not BHT as far as I read the labels found on the Walmart website (I am not at home to read the label on my own can of shortening.) Both are used as food additives to prevent rancidity. But the Kevin Dunn experiment talks about BHT use in soap, so if I were to use one, that would be the one. But from what I read, BHA is stronger as an antioxidant, so it should work better for food at least. However, even shortening with BHA can go rancid if left too long in the cupboard.

 

[DawninWA]

The GV shortening is supposed to be something like 98% Tallow, 2% palm. It's great stuff, gives me creamy hard bars that last forever.

 

[mx5inpenn]

So I'm a couple of batches in now and I wanted to try some suggestions/ideas/searches regarding tallow (read I ran out of tallow and it's going to be a while before I get more XD).
I've made two batches so far with GV shortening and since I've taken them out of the mold I'm a little disappointed. With tallow (as this may have be beginners luck) my bars came out a nice creamy white, the GV bars look a little sickly (didn't completely gel either, which I'm confused about but that's another issue).
I'm also starting to notice tiny orange specks on some bars(which I'm poking out with a toothpick) and that got me thinking. With regards to each ingredient, tallow, lard, and GV shortening, I know each can change the creaminess factor of each soap and one can be more drying than the other, but, can one go more rancid than the other quicker? Also can the smell (I can still smell pig) of the ingredient linger longer than others?
I'm shelving these bars for 6 months and see what becomes of them and place an order with soaper's choice/etsy for some tallow (Essential Depo gets too pricey) as I've gotten to spoiled by it's magic. I will still use up my tubs of lard and shortening but I also wonder what soap applications work better for them? Are there ingredients that work better than others and that make luxurious bars? Or is that an experiment in all of its self?
Oh, I should point out, I was using the same recipe I've been using since day one(ran through soapee of course).
Thanks
View attachment 26695

I have not tried the gv shortening. I have tried lard, tallow and palm individually. Lard is by far my favorite! I use it between 40 and 55% in all except my vegan recipes. I can smell the lard during the first couple weeks, but it is completely gone by the time it hits 6 weeks. How long are you curing them? I find them hard and creamy at 6 weeks, but at 6 months, they are amazing.

My favorite recipe is 50% lard, 15% coconut, 15% olive, 15% avocado and 5% castor.

 

[MissLunaB]

I got to thinking and since I have 2 new 1lb molds this is the perfect time to try. I, going to make a batch each of lard and GV shortening and see how they turn out. Once I get my tallow in I'll make a another batch to add to the test subjects. This did bring up another question of mine but I need to look up some more info on DOS before going forward with my next next experiment.
Thank you everyone on your input and recipes!
One more thing, has anyone made salt bars with tallow/lard/GV shortening? My sister brought it up and now I'm curious. Thanks!

 

[Obsidian]

I tried 20% lard in a salt bar once, hated it. It reduced the lather too much, I'll stick to my 80%CO, 20% OO for a salt bar.

 

[penelopejane]

I've use GV shortening a few times in place of lard and so far, not had any issues with DOS. What I do get DOS from is high OO or any amount of canola.

Are you using pomace olive?
100% pure cold pressed OO shouldn't give you DOS.
Some OO if you look on the label (fine print) is a mixture of other oils, too, even though the front of the label says OLIVE oil!

I have 4 year old Castile (not mine) no DOS and tons of 2 year old Castile (mine) and no DOS.

I really don't understand the huge difference we all see in Castile. I can only think it comes down to the purity of the OO.

 

[Obsidian]

Doesn't matter what kind of OO. First pressing or cheap pomace, it all behaves the same for me.
I don't use olive at all anymore, switched to avo or ho safflower.