Lard in Soap

[soapart]

Hi everyone,

When I made my first soap it was an all lard 1lb batch which I scented with tea tree (from a well known book). It turned out well, as in it made soap(!) and I set off on my soap making journey.
Some weeks into the cure a couple of the bars developed DOS so that immediately put me off using lard again.

I have been wondering if I should give it another try (especially since seeing AngelMomma's pristine beauty bar!)

I used lard from a local supermarket. Should I be trying to source some extra special super duper lard from somewhere or do you all use the no frills lard from your local supermarket?

 

[pamielynn]

Just check your recipe carefully first. Lard is really easy to soap with - and yes the stuff in the supermarket is just fine to use. Sometimes, you never can tell why a batch went wrong (especially if you're not taking exact notes like soaping temp and ambient temps). Lard's cheap enough to play with. Good luck!

 

[soapguy]

There are additives you can introduce to your mix that will reduce the onset of DOS. Some are Vit C, EDTA, BHT, sodium citrate, and Rosemary Oleoresin Extract (ROE). I find that using coconut oil in my recipe with lard works well enough without these additives, and I have not seen DOS in my soaps that are over a year old. Storage of your soaps helps significantly. Store them in a clean cool dry environment.

 

[whiskandbowl]

I've always used lard (over 50% in my main recipe) and have only had DOS once (not even the whole batch, just a few bars, still no idea what caused it)

I have some that are over 2 years old and still DOS free. FWIW I've always used lard from WalMart

 

[chicklet]

Where and how you store the soap can also affect development of DOS. I've read that soap cured or stored on cardboard can develop DOS and that DOS can spread when bars are touching. I've only had one case of DOS so I don't have much first-hand experience with it - I attributed mine to too much sunflower oil - but I'm always watching out for it. It's why they call it "dreaded" I guess.

 

[dcornett]

I wouldn't be put off by lard based on the one inident, since the use of lard can make for some really creamy nice soaps, and like said above so many other factors can contribute to dos besides the oils that went into the batch.

 

[Moody Glenn]

There are additives you can introduce to your mix that will reduce the onset of DOS. Some are Vit C, EDTA, BHT, sodium citrate, and Rosemary Oleoresin Extract (ROE). I find that using coconut oil in my recipe with lard works well enough without these additives, and I have not seen DOS in my soaps that are over a year old. Storage of your soaps helps significantly. Store them in a clean cool dry environment.

I agree with soapguy using these methods. One other factor is if you gel or not. My earlier soapmaking using lard and other oils and fats I did not gel. Some developed DOS after three months or more. When I decided to allow my soap to gel I did not get DOS. Same recipe, same EOs and FOs, same conditions for storage but I allowed the soap to undergo gelling. I have a few of these soap bars well over a year old, in cool, dark storage and so far so good.

 

[Soapman Ryan]

I've always used lard (over 50% in my main recipe) and have only had DOS once (not even the whole batch, just a few bars, still no idea what caused it)

I have some that are over 2 years old and still DOS free. FWIW I've always used lard from WalMart

whiskandbowl, do you gel or not get your lard soap?

 

[soapart]

Thanks everyone.

Taking all your points on board, I'd be a fool not to give lard another try!

 

[ashleyrobertson]

Perhaps you should try vegetable shortening instead of lard? Crisco.

It would keep your soaps vegan, and the soaps last a lot longer - and don't end up with a grease smell eventually.

 

[manwithbeers]

This relates to something I've been thinking about reading various posts here. There isn't much discussion about sanitation during the process. Having brewed beer for the past 15 years as a hobby, sanitation is the number 1 consideration in making a quality product. I expect that the lack of sanitation may have a lot to do with DOS in soap. I can see many avenues for infection to evolve in handcrafted soaps given we are mixing oil with water and leaving oils unsaponified.

When I make soap my spray bottle of food grade sanitizer automatically comes out. I spray down all work surfaces and tools before starting anything. I'm not so concerned about using oils like Soy Bean as some suggest because I'm confident that my stock is fresh and my process is sanitary but I do recognize that given a long shelf life they are still susceptible to picking up biologicals of some sort if not oxidizing into rancidity.

What do others do for sanitizing if anything?

 

[hlee]

I work with food and I try to use the same GMP quide lines with soap as I do at work with food.
I am super careful about keeping my hair back when soap making. Just looking around the bathroom floor I know I "shed" like crazy. I keep thinking about a stray hair getting caught in sticky soap batter. Yuk!

I really like Lard, use it frequently and have not had DOS yet but I have not used it as my primary oil.

 

[heartsong]

hi, there! I, too, like lard as part of a balanced oil blend...lard can go bad as I just recently found out & disposed of...if it smells "porky" toss it...and refrigerate unused fat...I live in Alabama, and in the hot, sticky south things can go bad fast! I believe air circulation can also be critical for even curing and place my soaps near an air vent in my soap room.

what was your superfat? for an all lard soap I probably wouldn't go with more than 4-5%...also I don't use as much water...2:1 water/lye and hand stir the soap batter.

here's a nice lard soapie that I've used often with very good results.

23% coconut
42% lard
30% olive
5% castor

soapcal sez:

hardness: 41
cleansing: 16
conditioning: 54
bubbly: 20
creamy: 30
iodine: 56 (higher than 65-70 can also create DOS)
INS: 154

I usually soap around 110-120*, hand stirring then insulate for a warm, full gel. essential oils are best with higher soaping temps, as some f/o's are real drama queens and then you end up with "soap on a stick!" :smile: HTH!

 

[nebetmiw]

Hi everyone,

When I made my first soap it was an all lard 1lb batch which I scented with tea tree (from a well known book). It turned out well, as in it made soap(!) and I set off on my soap making journey.
Some weeks into the cure a couple of the bars developed DOS so that immediately put me off using lard again.

I have been wondering if I should give it another try (especially since seeing AngelMomma's pristine beauty bar!)

I used lard from a local supermarket. Should I be trying to source some extra special super duper lard from somewhere or do you all use the no frills lard from your local supermarket?

I am betting that the tea tree was cut with something that gave you the DOS. It is not likly the lard but real likly the scent oil as many are cut to make them cheaper to make and sell.

 

[Bicycle808]

Perhaps you should try vegetable shortening instead of lard? Crisco.

It would keep your soaps vegan, and the soaps last a lot longer - and don't end up with a grease smell eventually.

I used crisco once, and got plenty of DOS. Only batch i ever had like that, but it was also among the first batches i'd ever made.

 

[dagmar88]

Sure, with that amount of soybean.
Pure palm would make a better sub if you wanted something vegan.

 

[soapart]

Thanks everyone for your ideas and suggestions.

Chicklet, you may be on to something regarding the cardboard, as I did cure that first batch on cardboard. I have since cured all my soaps in wire baskets which allows good air flow around the bars.

Manwithbeers, in my previous life I was a senior nurse (so that either means I'll be the best or the worst with hygiene!!) I think the point you make is very valid though, I knew that 'aseptic technique' would come in handy someday!!!

Nebetmiw, I have been far from happy with my early supplier and his products so you may be right about the tea tree (I've since changed to an excellent supplier).

Finally, Heartsong thanks so much for positing a recipe for me to try, bless you

On reflection, I think my DOS were potentially caused by any number of the reasons you guys have given.

 

[whiskandbowl]

whiskandbowl, do you gel or not gel your lard soap?

I can't get a good gel for the life of me All my soaps are ungelled, unless I get an FO that's a heater

 

[heartsong]

I can't get a good gel for the life of me All my soaps are ungelled, unless I get an FO that's a heater

my suggestion would be to either soap at higher temps (120*+) but if you have drama queen f/o to contend with, you can force gel like I do...I take a cookie sheet, place a heating pad on it at medium or low...place mold on it, cover and wait for gel...sometimes it can take overnight...best way to check is place a temp guage next to mold under the insulation and monitor temps every hour with a kitchen timer...125-130* is just about perfect...I use this with my silicone or plastic molds...wooden molds seem to insulate better and bring on gel if soaping temps are a bit higher.

one more thing to add...using an unfamiliar f/o, some can generate a great deal of heat...check often if you're not sure!

:-D HTH!

 

[whiskandbowl]

my suggestion would be to either soap at higher temps (120*+) but if you have drama queen f/o to contend with, you can force gel like I do...I take a cookie sheet, place a heating pad on it at medium or low...place mold on it, cover and wait for gel...sometimes it can take overnight...best way to check is place a temp guage next to mold under the insulation and monitor temps every hour with a kitchen timer...125-130* is just about perfect...I use this with my silicone or plastic molds...wooden molds seem to insulate better and bring on gel if soaping temps are a bit higher.

one more thing to add...using an unfamiliar f/o, some can generate a great deal of heat...check often if you're not sure!

:-D HTH!

Thanks I really do think I am gel impaired. I've used a basic recipe and technique as another soaper friend, and can't get my soap to gel (mold placed in box after pour, and box covered with a few towels), but hers does. Even soaping warm :roll:

I've come to learn which of my FO's tend to cause me trouble. Worst one is Cranberry Orange from NG. That one goes straight into the fridge. I haven't had much luck trying to force gel before (using oven, I don't own a heating pad) and would either overheat, or get partials, so now I just roll with it and don't gel at all.

I'm currently drooling over a silicone lined wooden mold (5lb) If I can't get that to gel.....