KHelp, please. Lotion/Liquid Soap.

[CleanHandsPureHeart]

So, I ventured for the first time (from successful CP soaping) into lotion AND liquid soap. In my infinite wisdom, I decided to do this on the same day. Hmmm.

Here's the outcomes and questions...
Liquid soap would NOT not separate! Very thin. Won't lather. Very conditioning, though I've got almost a half gallon to do something with.
First question: Thoughts? Can I incorporate it into something else? Start melting leftover scraps, maybe, and hope it gets thicker and STAYS TOGETHER?? (this was not a from-scratch KOH endeavor, but simply melted leftover CP bars into water) Do I need to just bite the bullet, buy some KOH, and make the real deal?

Lotion is thick and creamy, totally soothing, smells FANTASTIC. But I had to "drain" it twice over the course of two days (33oz recipe drained off almost 2 cups thin liquid)
Second question: Why? (GW415 soy wax was what I had on hand and used as my emulsifying wax -- is that the issue?)
Third question: Any thought what I could use what drained off for to not waste it?

So grateful for y'all and your expertise(s). Thank you, Dori

 

[DeeAnna]

Without recipes, we can't help.

What I can say is I have no idea why you think soy wax is an emulsifier. It's not

 

[squidstings]

So, I ventured for the first time (from successful CP soaping) into lotion AND liquid soap. In my infinite wisdom, I decided to do this on the same day. Hmmm.

Here's the outcomes and questions...
Liquid soap would NOT not separate! Very thin. Won't lather.

Aside from the recipe, dirt and water purity can ruin the lather. Did you dilute in Distilled or RO water?

Very conditioning, though I've got almost a half gallon to do something with.

First question: Thoughts? Can I incorporate it into something else? Start melting leftover scraps, maybe, and hope it gets thicker and STAYS TOGETHER?? (this was not a from-scratch KOH endeavor, but simply melted leftover CP bars into water) Do I need to just bite the bullet, buy some KOH, and make the real deal?

I've haven't done many recipes, but every one has gone through trace-cure differently.

I know you can thicken with salt. I'm sure you'll get better suggestions. But I've added my liquids to thicker syndets to improve the conditioning. Worked well for me.

I found basic KOH, disappointingly (my hopes were too high) runny. Other than glycerine substituted for water mixed with the lye... you'll again get more ideas elsewhere.

Lotion is thick and creamy, totally soothing, smells FANTASTIC. But I had to "drain" it twice over the course of two days (33oz recipe drained off almost 2 cups thin liquid)
Second question: Why? (GW415 soy wax was what I had on hand and used as my emulsifying wax -- is that the issue?)
Third question: Any thought what I could use what drained off for to not waste it?

So grateful for y'all and your expertise(s). Thank you, Dori

Sounds like a broken or unsuccessful emulsion.

 

[CleanHandsPureHeart]

Aside from the recipe, dirt and water purity can ruin the lather. Did you dilute in Distilled or RO water?

RO'd well water. We have an 8-stage filter, though...two whole-house and 6-stage under sink. Same water I use for my CP. But maybe not okay for liquid soap?

I know you can thicken with salt. I'm sure you'll get better suggestions. But I've added my liquids to thicker syndets to improve the conditioning. Worked well for me.

Yes, I SALTED like crazy
Okay, I'll keep the separated liquid soap for shampoo bar requests...play with it. And maybe the small amount of lotion "drain off" for my daughter's hair conditioning, perhaps?

I found basic KOH, disappointingly (my hopes were too high) runny. Other than glycerine substituted for water mixed with the lye... you'll again get more ideas elsewhere.

Sounds like a broken or unsuccessful emulsion.

Okay, thanks for sharing that. When I have the KOH, I think I'm going to give Irish Lass's detailed liquid soap recipe & instructions a try. She's such a great and thorough teacher, without making newbies feel stupid.
And yes, it does sound like that (and looks like that I'm so glad the creamy lotion left behind is so amazing!

Thanks for your kind response, squidstings

So, I ventured for the first time (from successful CP soaping) into lotion AND liquid soap. In my infinite wisdom, I decided to do this on the same day. Hmmm.

Here's the outcomes and questions...
Liquid soap would NOT not separate! Very thin. Won't lather. Very conditioning, though I've got almost a half gallon to do something with.
First question: Thoughts? Can I incorporate it into something else? Start melting leftover scraps, maybe, and hope it gets thicker and STAYS TOGETHER?? (this was not a from-scratch KOH endeavor, but simply melted leftover CP bars into water) Do I need to just bite the bullet, buy some KOH, and make the real deal?

Lotion is thick and creamy, totally soothing, smells FANTASTIC. But I had to "drain" it twice over the course of two days (33oz recipe drained off almost 2 cups thin liquid)
Second question: Why? (GW415 soy wax was what I had on hand and used as my emulsifying wax -- is that the issue?)
Third question: Any thought what I could use what drained off for to not waste it?

So grateful for y'all and your expertise(s). Thank you, Dori

Recipes:
Lotion
16.8 oz aloe gel/goat milk powder
5.6 oz h.o. sunflower oil (replacing original recipe's avocado oil)
4 oz refined coconut oil (76 degree)
2 oz shea butter
2 oz gw415 soy wax (it's what I had on hand from shaving pucks)
1.2 oz argan (replacing original recipe's grapeseed)
OptiphenPlus at 1%
3/4 t. Arrowroot Powder
frankincense, bergamot, lavender, cardamom EOs
-- oils melted with soy wax
-- goat milk aloe warmed to matching temps and then added to oils and SB'd to emulsion, or what looked like it. SB'd as cooled and thickened. Added preservative, essential oils, arrowroot.
Had to drain off liquid two times over the next day/night. But creamy lotion left behind is wonderful.

Liquid Soap, part 1
4.5 oz chopped up older homemade CP soap
48 oz RO well water
1 oz. glycerin
OptiphenPlus at 1%
Fragrance oil at IFRA
-- simmered water, added chopped soap, removed from heat, allowed to completely dissolve overnight. Stirred. Added glycerin, preservative, and fragrance. SB'd to fully blend. Looked great for an hour. Separated.
Part 2
-- added 1/4 himalayan pink salt and 2T. sugar dissolved into 1/2 c. aloe gel. SB'd. Looked great for another hour. Separated.
Part 3
-- added 1/4 more of pink salt and 1/4 sugar, not dissolved in any liquid. SB'd it in.
-- added extra T. of glycerin, extra Optiphen, extra fragrance.
-- left it alone overnight at this point and then well SB'd it all back together. Separated within an hour again.

 

[DeeAnna]

Liquid soap needs to be made with KOH. Chopping up a bar of NaOH soap and mixing it with water (and/or glycerin) is not an acceptable method. Some of us decided to test this idea some years ago, and the results were uniformly not acceptable liquid soap.

Also you're not only using NaOH soap, but you're also adding salt. Salt makes soap less soluble in water, so you're making it even harder for the dissolved NaOH soap to remain in a liquid state. The process you're inadvertently doing is what's called "salting out."

As far as the lotion recipe, there is no emulsifier in this formulation, so it's no surprise to me that the mixture is separating. The ingredients might be thick, but they are not emulsified.

I see you included milk, aloe, and arrowroot in the formulation. You've created a complete and balanced diet for microbes by adding sugars, protein, and starches to the fats. The best of preservatives utterly cannot prevent microbial growth in a medium that's so loaded with food. That wonderful "lotion" is very likely teeming with microbes, and I would not use it.

 

[cmzaha]

I absolutely would not use that lotion. I made a lot of lotions and had them tested. Also, I would not add milk to my lotions because they were extremely hard to preserve. No way would OptiphenPlus at 1% preserve a lotion with GM if you added Aloe, which is also bug food. Even preserving with PhenoNip is hard with milk-based lotions, which need to be challenge tested to know they are actually properly preserved. Please do your due diligence and research well when playing with lotions.

 

[squidstings]

RO'd well water. We have an 8-stage filter, though...two whole-house and 6-stage under sink. Same water I use for my CP. But maybe not okay for liquid soap?

Yes, I SALTED like crazy
Okay, I'll keep the separated liquid soap for shampoo bar requests...play with it. And maybe the small amount of lotion "drain off" for my daughter's hair conditioning, perhaps?

Okay, thanks for sharing that. When I have the KOH, I think I'm going to give Irish Lass's detailed liquid soap recipe & instructions a try. She's such a great and thorough teacher, without making newbies feel stupid.
And yes, it does sound like that (and looks like that I'm so glad the creamy lotion left behind is so amazing!

Thanks for your kind response, squidstings

Hope something's helpful.
Honestly, I wouldn't salt. Just answering what was asked
Perhaps try going the other way when you make your own. Foam dispensers. Even when it's all thin and watery, it's still pretty concentrated. Glycerine really needs to be part of the soap. Anything you add, especially to "old soap" will pre-load the soap molecules. To the soap, adding it in a bottle is the same as what's on your hands. Soap's too dirty to lather well.

Recipes:
Lotion
16.8 oz aloe gel/goat milk powder
5.6 oz h.o. sunflower oil (replacing original recipe's avocado oil)
4 oz refined coconut oil (76 degree)
2 oz shea butter
2 oz gw415 soy wax (it's what I had on hand from shaving pucks)
1.2 oz argan (replacing original recipe's grapeseed)
OptiphenPlus at 1%
3/4 t. Arrowroot Powder
frankincense, bergamot, lavender, cardamom EOs
-- oils melted with soy wax
-- goat milk aloe warmed to matching temps and then added to oils and SB'd to emulsion, or what looked like it. SB'd as cooled and thickened. Added preservative, essential oils, arrowroot.
Had to drain off liquid two times over the next day/night. But creamy lotion left behind is wonderful.

Even with an emulsifier, you'll also need a preservative to prevent all the nasties @DeeAnna mentioned.