It went rancid

[cmzaha]

I disagree with your statement. I've had 100% CO soap with a negative SF go rancid and it was stinky and gross. Sorry, been making soap a long time. And A few bars of soap in the garbage is not going to affect a darn thing with the Corona virus. I'm also, not going to waste my time and supplies to try to save some smelly soap.

Neither am I. It goes in the trash. I have salted out soap and it is just to time consuming and I did not particularly like the soap in the end.

 

[gorio]

There is absolutely nothing wrong with the recipe as posted. Not sure what you are talking about. This issue as others stated was likely old/rancid oils. Also, you are making quite an assumption as to if they are using someone else's recipe. And even if they are it's still making soap. That or I must be an idiot since I followed someone else's recipe when I first started and there are likely many who are still using a recipe they found somewhere like here. There is nothing wrong with it. However, didn't read that at all. They were looking for their recipe. And it's not rocket science as you seem to infer. Yes, there is a bit of science involved and some safety required, but most soapmaker's aren't scientists nor do they want to be. Also, the OP had made other soaps, hence looking for their other recipe.

So please think carefully before making assumptions or chastising.

Since you're new here please go to the introduction forum and introduce yourself and tell us a bit about you and your soapmaking experience.

Also, be sure to read the forum rules.
Welcome to the forum.

no,no,no you got the message totally wrong and i am sorry if the English way of expressing ourselves is different to that in USA but what was saying in not to be taken badly I meant no offence.
I never said there was anything wrong with the recipe, I'm sure its's been registered. What I was saying is it is not as stated the oils were not the responsibility of it going rancid.
I appreciate you might not quite grasp soap making but I'll try to explain in laymans terms.
The balance in the recipe quoted was 31:69 ratio of saturated and unsaturated fats (67 double bond molecules) the more double bonds the more chance the soap will go rancid to fix this balance the mix with more saturated fats ( those that are hard at room temperature) The recipe was accurate in water lye and oils to make 535 ml before cure everything was correct just the risk of rancidity with such a poor ratio and as you see a batch was good and one went bad.
Now, I think you were a bit naughty here as for soap makers not being rocket scientists and I do consed the fact they are not, though, in my defence that was your assumption I never mentioned rocket being involved in soap making however, I do take your point.
I was surprised to note that you don't understand what i was talking about but that was maybe me not explaining in the correct fashion.
So once again I do apologise for making the point in the wrong manner.
In the new soap calc I am pleased to see they have updated this sort of information so the information is readily available for all to access
so there's the message watch those unsaturated fats in you carboxylic fatty acids - just to be sure

 

[shunt2011]

no,no,no you got the message totally wrong and i am sorry if the English way of expressing ourselves is different to that in USA but what was saying in not to be taken badly I meant no offence.
I never said there was anything wrong with the recipe, I'm sure its's been registered. What I was saying is it is not as stated the oils were not the responsibility of it going rancid.
I appreciate you might not quite grasp soap making but I'll try to explain in laymans terms.
The balance in the recipe quoted was 31:69 ratio of saturated and unsaturated fats (67 double bond molecules) the more double bonds the more chance the soap will go rancid to fix this balance the mix with more saturated fats ( those that are hard at room temperature) The recipe was accurate in water lye and oils to make 535 ml before cure everything was correct just the risk of rancidity with such a poor ratio and as you see a batch was good and one went bad.
Now, I think you were a bit naughty here as for soap makers not being rocket scientists and I do consed the fact they are not, though, in my defence that was your assumption I never mentioned rocket being involved in soap making however, I do take your point.
I was surprised to note that you don't understand what i was talking about but that was maybe me not explaining in the correct fashion.
So once again I do apologise for making the point in the wrong manner.
In the new soap calc I am pleased to see they have updated this sort of information so the information is readily available for all to access
so there's the message watch those unsaturated fats in you carboxylic fatty acids - just to be sure

I grasp soapmaking just fine. Rancid oils make rancid soap. Period as well as other issues other than your saturated/unsaturated statement. I've got a recipe similar to theirs and it's 10 years old and just dandy. 100% OO soap has been around for eons and no issues. Sorry. I've also had high Palm soap go bad and 100% Coconut soap. You may want to re-read your response to the OP. I still take offense. I think I'm going to leave this conversation as I'm done being insulted and your insulting others knowledge. Your English writing is quite clear.

 

[gorio]

I grasp soapmaking just fine. Rancid oils make rancid soap. Period as well as other issues other than your saturated/unsaturated statement. I've got a recipe similar to theirs and it's 10 years old and just dandy. 100% OO soap has been around for eons and no issues. Sorry. I've also had high Palm soap go bad and 100% Coconut soap. You may want to re-read your response to the OP. I still take offense. I think I'm going to leave this conversation as I'm done being insulted and your insulting others knowledge. Your English writing is quite clear.

A couple of years ago while attending the Handcrafted Soapmakers Guild Conference they had an expects panel during one of the session. So I anonymously wrote my question to the panel of expects. I wanted to know how to properly dispose of rancid oils. The answer came from Linda Stevens the owner of Upland Soap Factory and well known large batch soapmaker. She yelled out “Make Soap!” At first I was a bit perplexed at then she went on to explain.

When you have rancid soapmaking oils don’t throw them out. Make soap and saponify at 100%. No lye discount should be taken. You want all the oil to be converted to soap leaving behind no excess oils. If there are no excess oils then there is no oils to continue going rancid.

Also if you have rancid oils you can wash in salt water/brine

A couple of years ago while attending the Handcrafted Soapmakers Guild Conference they had an expects panel during one of the session. So I anonymously wrote my question to the panel of expects. I wanted to know how to properly dispose of rancid oils. The answer came from Linda Stevens the owner of Upland Soap Factory and well known large batch soapmaker. She yelled out “Make Soap!” At first I was a bit perplexed at then she went on to explain.

When you have rancid soapmaking oils don’t throw them out. Make soap and saponify at 100%. No lye discount should be taken. You want all the oil to be converted to soap leaving behind no excess oils. If there are no excess oils then there is no oils to continue going rancid.

Also if you have rancid oils you can wash in salt water/brine

yes I'm done

 

[amd]

When you have rancid soapmaking oils don’t throw them out. Make soap and saponify at 100%. No lye discount should be taken. You want all the oil to be converted to soap leaving behind no excess oils. If there are no excess oils then there is no oils to continue going rancid.

Also if you have rancid oils you can wash in salt water/brine

This only works if you KNOW that the oils are rancid. Many people don't know, can't tell, or just don't pay attention. I've personally had it with a flavor oil for lip balm, the scent had completely gone out of the oil and I didn't notice until after I had my balm in tubes and went... wait, that doesn't smell like fruit punch. If I had been more observant I would have noticed before I poured out 48 tubes of lip balm.

Please stop speaking to us as if we are amateurs who don't know up from down. Many of us have been making soap for a very long time and are speaking from practical experience. The practical experience being human error, which you can't throw science at no matter how hard you try.

 

[CatahoulaBubble]

no,no,no you got the message totally wrong and i am sorry if the English way of expressing ourselves is different to that in USA but what was saying in not to be taken badly I meant no offence.
I never said there was anything wrong with the recipe, I'm sure its's been registered. What I was saying is it is not as stated the oils were not the responsibility of it going rancid.
I appreciate you might not quite grasp soap making but I'll try to explain in laymans terms.
The balance in the recipe quoted was 31:69 ratio of saturated and unsaturated fats (67 double bond molecules) the more double bonds the more chance the soap will go rancid to fix this balance the mix with more saturated fats ( those that are hard at room temperature) The recipe was accurate in water lye and oils to make 535 ml before cure everything was correct just the risk of rancidity with such a poor ratio and as you see a batch was good and one went bad.
Now, I think you were a bit naughty here as for soap makers not being rocket scientists and I do consed the fact they are not, though, in my defence that was your assumption I never mentioned rocket being involved in soap making however, I do take your point.
I was surprised to note that you don't understand what i was talking about but that was maybe me not explaining in the correct fashion.
So once again I do apologise for making the point in the wrong manner.
In the new soap calc I am pleased to see they have updated this sort of information so the information is readily available for all to access
so there's the message watch those unsaturated fats in you carboxylic fatty acids - just to be sure

Your English way of expressing yourself is basically you being a jerk.

 

[chibi-soap]

Hi Chibi-soap,
Have you tried using the soap yet?

Yes, I did use one bar. The rest has long gone to the council composting facility This was more than one spot of DOS, it was an overwhelming cloud of yuck!
Today is the day to try again, however!

 

[chibi-soap]

I've just realised something bad. My scales are out consistently by 7%. They read low. Which wouldn't be bad actually if I used the same scales for everything in the recipe but I used my tiny drug dealer scales to measure the lye, which are accurate, which means I have 7% + 5% superfat more fat than can be saponified by the lye.
If I used the same scales last year, which I probably did, would that account for the rancidity?

Edit: I've just fixed the scales! Each of the little feet under them (they are quite cheap) must have a sensor (if you poke each foot you get a reading on the scale). Each foot has a little piece of rubber on it, except two of those rubber bits had migrated to the body of the scale, so I put them back on the feet and voila! 100ml of water weighs 100g!

So now I don't know if they were broken last year or not but I've made 3 batches of 15 bars with them in that state, so will they be OK?

 

[chibi-soap]

...
I appreciate you might not quite grasp soap making but I'll try to explain in laymans terms.
...

I was trying to stay out of this, even though the first patronising message was directed at me, but I can't help myself.
In what sense are you an expert and in what sense is @shunt2011 a layman?

 

[shunt2011]

I was trying to stay out of this, even though the first patronising message was directed at me, but I can't help myself.
In what sense are you an expert and in what sense is @shunt2011 a layman?

Excuse me, I never even commented to you. I actually stuck up for you and your recipe. So you Amy want to check yourself. I never commented to you directly. you Can surely bet I’ll never help you going forward. None of my commented were even addressed to you.

 

[chibi-soap]

Excuse me, I never even commented to you. I actually stuck up for you and your recipe. So you Amy want to check yourself. I never commented to you directly. you Can surely bet I’ll never help you going forward. None of my commented were even addressed to you.

That's right...I'm replying to @gorio ....he called you a layman...I'm wondering what on earth that was based on and what makes him think he is a professional. (or she think she's a professionl)

 

[shunt2011]

That's right...I'm replying to @gorio ....he called you a layman...I'm wondering what on earth that was based on and what makes him think he is a professional. (or she think she's a professionl)

Okay, I apologize. I misunderstood your post then. Alls good.

 

[penelopejane]

I've just realised something bad. My scales are out consistently by 7%. They read low. Which wouldn't be bad actually if I used the same scales for everything in the recipe but I used my tiny drug dealer scales to measure the lye, which are accurate, which means I have 7% + 5% superfat more fat than can be saponified by the lye.
If I used the same scales last year, which I probably did, would that account for the rancidity?

Edit: I've just fixed the scales! Each of the little feet under them (they are quite cheap) must have a sensor (if you poke each foot you get a reading on the scale). Each foot has a little piece of rubber on it, except two of those rubber bits had migrated to the body of the scale, so I put them back on the feet and voila! 100ml of water weighs 100g!

So now I don't know if they were broken last year or not but I've made 3 batches of 15 bars with them in that state, so will they be OK?

Excessive Super fat can lead to rancidity. But it could be a combination of high superfat and oils that are already rancid or that are reknown for being prone to DOS. The oils you have used are pretty long lived so I don't think it is that. Do any of your oils smell off in the bottle? If not I'd say it was the argon oil you used.

I had a brand new bottle of jojoba oil. Smelt fine in the bottle and still does but it causes DOS in every soap I make with it even at 1%. It was obviously an old oil when they packaged and dated it.

 

[chibi-soap]

Excessive Super fat can lead to rancidity. But it could be a combination of high superfat and oils that are already rancid or that are reknown for being prone to DOS. The oils you have used are pretty long lived so I don't think it is that. Do any of your oils smell off in the bottle? If not I'd say it was the argon oil you used.

I had a brand new bottle of jojoba oil. Smelt fine in the bottle and still does but it causes DOS in every soap I make with it even at 1%. It was obviously an old oil when they packaged and dated it.

Thanks. I think my plan will be to let these three batches cure and if they are no good as Christmas time approaches (assuming there will be a Christmas this year) I'll ditch them and make some HP soap. The next batch I'll make with the proper proportions and superfat.
I bought all new oils for these four batches, so they all smell alright. I don't remember any of last years oils smelling bad, but, as I said before, there was some old argan oil and might have been some castor oil from the year before. I think I should stop asking questions because there are too many things I don't know about the state of the oils and scales last year.
I think I'm at a disadvantage because I only make soap once a year! More soap! That's the solution!

 

[penelopejane]

Thanks. I think my plan will be to let these three batches cure and if they are no good as Christmas time approaches (assuming there will be a Christmas this year) I'll ditch them and make some HP soap. The next batch I'll make with the proper proportions and superfat.
I bought all new oils for these four batches, so they all smell alright. I don't remember any of last years oils smelling bad, but, as I said before, there was some old argan oil and might have been some castor oil from the year before. I think I should stop asking questions because there are too many things I don't know about the state of the oils and scales last year.
I think I'm at a disadvantage because I only make soap once a year! More soap! That's the solution!

It never hurts to ask questions because as you type something might become clearer to you.
HPsoap takes as long as CP soap to cure so don't leave it until the last minute. It might also be a good idea to make another batch while you remember what you did wrong. CP soap is a much prettier soap - try again with a tiny amount so you don't end up with too much soap.

Rancid soap only gets worse and spreads to other soaps stored nearby.

Make sure you write absolutely everything down and number your soap batches so you know what you did next year.

I'd say it was the argan oil. Castor oil lasts forever if stored in a cool dark place. Glad to hear you fixed your scale problem.

 

[chibi-soap]

It never hurts to ask questions because as you type something might become clearer to you.
HPsoap takes as long as CP soap to cure so don't leave it until the last minute. It might also be a good idea to make another batch while you remember what you did wrong. CP soap is a much prettier soap - try again with a tiny amount so you don't end up with too much soap.

Rancid soap only gets worse and spreads to other soaps stored nearby.

Make sure you write absolutely everything down and number your soap batches so you know what you did next year.

I'd say it was the argan oil. Castor oil lasts forever if stored in a cool dark place. Glad to hear you fixed your scale problem.

Thank you again. I had a feeling that the rancidity had spread from bar to bar, but that sounded daft in my own head. I've kept notes about all the variations. Hopefully, I'll remember where my notebook is!
This article led me to believe that HP soap cures faster
https://www.modernsoapmaking.com/hot-process-soapmaking-for-production-soaping/
is that wrong?

 

[penelopejane]

That article is wrong. Yes hot process soap making speeds up saponification but it does not speed up cure. Soap gets better and better with time taken to cure. It lathers better, is bubblier and is milder on the skin.

I urge you to try it yourself by testing soap that is 2, 4, 8 and 12 weeks cure and see if you can notice the difference. Sure, the soap is usable after 2 weeks whether it is CP or HP, but it is not good soap.

 

[chibi-soap]

Thanks! I won't wait too long before making a decision on whether to ditch or not. I wonder if the different batches should be social-isolating to prevent the spread of contagion?