Is palm oil harsh for face? beginner soaper needs help~

[lovesoap]

I am a beginner soaper , I am planning to try out the classic facial soap recipe which I got it from this forum:
75% Olive (heard that it is mild for face and produce slim lather)
10% Coconut
5% Castor

1) Palm Oil harsh for face/sensitive skin?
I am thinking to substitute 10-20% of Olive Oil to 10-20% of Palm Oil to get creamier lather and to reduce cost, but I wonder if Palm Oil would be too harsh for face. If my Olive Oil is only 50% of the total oil, will it still produce a mild facial bar?

2) 38% or 40% water
Besides, if my water portion is 40%(ease of calculation/measurement) instead of 38% suggested by soapcalc, will I sacrify the hardness of my soap? Or, it will still be hard like bricks after longer curing time?

3) How to preserve the 'essence' of addictive (ie. clay, milk powder)
Can I add watersoluble-addictive (ie. clay or milk powder) at the end of the hot process (gel stage), instead of mixing it with water and lye before the trace? Will the watersoluble-addictive separate from the cooked soap? Just curious if there is anyway to preserve the 'essence', so that the quality of the addictive will not be affected by lye or high temperature.

Ooops... Sorry for so many questions. May sound silly to experienced soaper. All advices are most welcomed! Thanks so much

 

[dagmar88]

I am a beginner soaper , I am planning to try out the classic facial soap recipe which I got it from this forum:
75% Olive (heard that it is mild for face and produce slim lather)
10% Coconut
5% Castor

Welcome to the soap making forum! There's really no shame in being a beginner; all of us had to start somewhere :wink: Pure olive oil soap (castille) is indeed a bit slimy and some people do not appreciate the way it feels. It also needs a long curing time, I'd recommand at least 8 weeks.

1) Palm Oil harsh for face/sensitive skin?
I am thinking to substitute 10-20% of Olive Oil to 10-20% of Palm Oil to get creamier lather and to reduce cost, but I wonder if Palm Oil would be too harsh for face. If my Olive Oil is only 50% of the total oil, will it still produce a mild facial bar?:

Palm isn't harsh at all; palm kernal and/or coconut oil can be when used in large quantities with normal superfat.
For soap that has both fluffy and creamy lather you could try:
25% coconut oil or palm kernal oil (some people think pko is better for sensitive skin)
20% palm oil
50% olive oil
5% castor

2) 38% or 40% water
Besides, if my water portion is 40%(ease of calculation/measurement) instead of 38% suggested by soapcalc, will I sacrify the hardness of my soap? Or, it will still be hard like bricks after longer curing time?

Soaping with 40% water will not affect hardness; but will increase shrinking of the soap when a portion of the water evaporates during the curing time.
When soaping with a high amount of olive oil, I'd soap with 33% (5% water discount). When you use a lye calculator like www.soapcalc.net; you won't have to do any calculations yourself. Makes it very easy to design your own recipes.

3) How to preserve the 'essence' of addictive (ie. clay, milk powder)
Can I add watersoluble-addictive (ie. clay or milk powder) at the end of the hot process (gel stage), instead of mixing it with water and lye before the trace? Will the watersoluble-addictive separate from the cooked soap? Just curious if there is anyway to preserve the 'essence', so that the quality of the addictive will not be affected by lye or high temperature.

I only do room temperature cold process; so I'm sure a HPer will be better at ansewring this.

Ooops... Sorry for so many questions. May sound silly to experienced soaper. All advices are most welcomed! Thanks so much

Reading and questioning are what this forum is for!

 

[Maria]

I do hot process and add what I consider the important stuff after the soap is made. I mix the fragrance with jojoba and shea butter plus whatever other stuff I am using. Clays can be added before the cook, they really need the stick blender to mix well.

 

[lovesoap]

Dear dagmar88,

Thanks so much so much for your friendly, patient and generous guidance!! I finally decided to try making my own soap since my face is not accepting any supermarket brand soap other than handmade soap.

oops… I forgot about the water discount required on hot process soap too. Thanks for the reminder ^^

I have very sensitive skin. I do feel tight-itchiness feeling on my face using handmade soap given by my friend, which is made from coconut oil. I thought I can minimize the feeling by reducing coconut oil and increasing olive oil, but too heavy portion olive oil gives slimy lather. I am definitely going to try Palm kernel oil.

I run the recipe on soapcalc, using the exactly same recipe except that entire portion of coconut oil is replaced by of PKO.
(20% of coconut oil)
Hardness 34
Cleansing 14
Conditioning 62
Bubbly 21
Creamy 28
Iodine 62
INS 145

(20% of PKO)
Hardness 32
Cleansing 12
Conditioning 64
Bubbly 20
Creamy 27
Iodine 64
INS 130

Dear, which one would you suggest for sensitive skin? no coconut oil means no bubbles?

 

[lovesoap]

I do hot process and add what I consider the important stuff after the soap is made. I mix the fragrance with jojoba and shea butter plus whatever other stuff I am using. Clays can be added before the cook, they really need the stick blender to mix well.

Thanks so much dear for the generous tips shared You mix it when the soap is completely cooked and ready to be scoop to the mold or when it is still liquid form and mixable?

 

[dagmar88]

coconut and pko both give fluffy lather; I'd try a small batch of each one and see what your skin likes best

 

[Maria]

When it is completely cooked and passes the zap test.

 

[TheSoapyEwe]

Hi,
I make HP exclusively and like Maria add in my milk, clays,colors etc after the cook just before I add the FO or EO and stir well.

I soap at 30% water discount and superfat at 7%, my bars harden up very quickly and I have almost no shrinkage to speak of.

Don't take the numbers on Soap Calc as the gospel a 100% lard bar will clean even though the calc's number wouldn't lead you to believe that it would.

If you're wanting bubbles then up your castor which adds bubbles and tons of moisturizing qualities as well.

Good Luck

 

[satsuki]

I only know palm oil is bad for the rain forest... I have decided not to use it.

 

[lovesoap]

coconut and pko both give fluffy lather; I'd try a small batch of each one and see what your skin likes best

thanks so much dear hugzz

When it is completely cooked and passes the zap test.

thanks maria for sharing ya... passing the zap test is a very great tip

 

[lovesoap]

Hi,
I make HP exclusively and like Maria add in my milk, clays,colors etc after the cook just before I add the FO or EO and stir well.

Dear, have you tried adding water-soluble addictive like arbutin after the cook? I wonder if it will separate with the cook soap.

I soap at 30% water discount and superfat at 7%, my bars harden up very quickly and I have almost no shrinkage to speak of.

Don't take the numbers on Soap Calc as the gospel a 100% lard bar will clean even though the calc's number wouldn't lead you to believe that it would.

If you're wanting bubbles then up your castor which adds bubbles and tons of moisturizing qualities as well.

Good Luck

omg, water discount of 30% is alot. means your water portion is only 8%? ya numbers on soapcalc is only for referance, can not follow 100%. Pure olive oil gives rock hard bar but according to soapcalc, pure olive oil gives very soft bar. :roll:

I only know palm oil is bad for the rain forest... I have decided not to use it.

I have read about it too. I am trying to find alternate oil for palm oil. Any suggestion?

 

[satsuki]

Lovesoap: I have no idea what could be a good replacement for palm oil. I don't really know what properties it has. Maybe I should read the thread thoroughly first...

 

[dagmar88]

I only know palm oil is bad for the rain forest... I have decided not to use it.

I have read about it too. I am trying to find alternate oil for palm oil. Any suggestion?

Lovesoap: I have no idea what could be a good replacement for palm oil. I don't really know what properties it has. Maybe I should read the thread thoroughly first...

Well Satsuki; I think it would be a better idea to look into the pro's and cons of palm oil before posting about it. If the only thing you know is that it's bad for the rainforest, you really need more research :wink: It isn't all black white, you know...

After the both of you have looked into it and you would decide not to use palm, there are alternatives:
-When you're not interested in making vegan soaps; lard & tallow.
-When you are, you could use sustainable/organic palm oil or
-Shortening.
But, if you do choose not to use palm because of environmental reasons, know that most vegetable shortenings contain hydrogenated ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogenation ) soy and cottonseed oil.
As cotton is not classified as a food crop; a wide range of pesticides is used on it. Cottonseed oil can often contain large quantities of pesticide residues.
Soy also forms a thread for large parts of the South American eco system & small farmers and on top of that, both soy and cottonseed oils originate from genetically modified crops.

I just went to take a look at Crisco's site and according to their ingredient list all their vegetable shortenings contain palm oil now.

 

[dagmar88]

I soap at 30% water discount and superfat at 7%, my bars harden up very quickly and I have almost no shrinkage to speak of.

omg, water discount of 30% is alot. means your water portion is only 8%? ya numbers on soapcalc is only for referance, can not follow 100%. Pure olive oil gives rock hard bar but according to soapcalc, pure olive oil gives very soft bar. :roll:

I think TheSoapyEwe soaps at 30% water and has a 8% discount.

 

[lovesoap]

Well Satsuki; I think it would be a better idea to look into the pro's and cons of palm oil before posting about it. If the only thing you know is that it's bad for the rainforest, you really need more research :wink: It isn't all black white, you know...

After the both of you have looked into it and you would decide not to use palm, there are alternatives:
-When you're not interested in making vegan soaps; lard & tallow.
-When you are, you could use sustainable/organic palm oil or
-Shortening.
But, if you do choose not to use palm because of environmental reasons, know that most vegetable shortenings contain hydrogenated ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogenation ) soy and cottonseed oil.
As cotton is not classified as a food crop; a wide range of pesticides is used on it. Cottonseed oil can often contain large quantities of pesticide residues.
Soy also forms a thread for large parts of the South American eco system & small farmers and on top of that, both soy and cottonseed oils originate from genetically modified crops.

I just went to take a look at Crisco's site and according to their ingredient list all their vegetable shortenings contain palm oil now.

I think TheSoapyEwe soaps at 30% water and has a 8% discount.

oh my... :shock: I only know about palm oil issue from candleandsoap.about, and many soapers have actually eliminated the use of palm oil in their soapmaking, made me wonder if there are some other reasons beside the environmental issues, (such like especially harsh on sensitive skin etc.) since this issue is mentioned so oftenly. Maybe because of this, I have neglected the research on other oils.

of course, if possible I would wish to make a soap that is as natural as possible. but as a beginner, I have not found a great oil that can replace palm oil which is of similar properties and also easily accessible. a lot more researches and experiments for me

and hah... sorry about the 30% water discount! how silly, please excuse me >_< thanks so much for your patience guidance dear dagmar88, sincerely.

 

[dagmar88]

No problem

Now, I'm not saying, when you are environmentally concious you can't use oil A, B & C.
I'm just saying that before making decisions, you should be properly informed.
Each ingredient has their benefits and downsides.

Personally I feel (aside from the real issues) not-using-palm is being used by companies to appeal to peoples 'green' feelings... Green, natural etc. all brings in big bugs.
IMHO it has way too much media exposure and too much of a bad name compared to similar products.

 

[lovesoap]

No problem

Now, I'm not saying, when you are environmentally concious you can't use oil A, B & C.
I'm just saying that before making decisions, you should be properly informed.
Each ingredient has their benefits and downsides.

Personally I feel (aside from the real issues) not-using-palm is being used by companies to appeal to peoples 'green' feelings... Green, natural etc. all brings in big bugs.
IMHO it has way too much media exposure and too much of a bad name compared to similar products.

ya.. I do think the same too. it's used to protrait a 'green' feelings. at least I have finally got it clear now, palm oil is eliminated by many soapers not beacuse it is harsh to skin ^^ thanks thanks~