Is it my recipe?? Consistent overheating + cracking

[Soapsugoii]

Every batch I've done (that I haven't left in the fridge overnight) has risen in the middle and cracked. Even leaving it on the counter.

I soap 70% CO, 30% OO for these, in 4 lb wooden log molds. I can feel that the soap gets hot, but when I took its temp last night it was only at 120'ish at the hottest. Why does it keep rising and cracking?

I prefer to gel, and the two batches I left in the fridge have a kind of waxy feel to the surface, and are softer than the batches I left either on the counter or in the oven. I'm not sure the fridge ones gelled fully. They look a bit mottled.

So, how do I achieve gel without having the cracking in the middle? Should I stick a piece of wood and some weights onto the top of the soap mold??

Edit: I also have been letting my oils and lye water cool. Oils to about 85 or 90 degrees and lye water to about 80

 

[Araseth]

I can't help so much on the recipe, but I do hear that coconut oil heats up. But have you tried setting some ice-packs maybe across the top of the mold or around it to regulate the temperature a bit. That way it would hopefully gel just slower and more controlled.

 

[judymoody]

Could you provide your complete recipe including amounts of lye and water? Are you using any fragrance oils, colorants, or additives like milk, sugar, or honey?

Wood log molds insulate really well. You might want to try a silicone loaf mold if you are getting consistent overheating. Elevating your mold, leaving it uncovered, or setting a fan on it are good ways to get it to cool down.

I keep an eye on my soap and if I see it gelling quickly, I get rid of insulation and throw it in the frig or freezer.

 

[Soapsugoii]

Ok, so my complete recipe is:

770g CO
330g OO
210g CO Superfat

300g water (with two or three ice cubs thrown in later, so maybe 330g?)
181g Lye

The base recipe is for 1100g oils, not including superfat oil. And I used Lavender 40/42 EO in my last batch, Lemongrass and Litsea, and Rosemary in the other batches. All have risen.

So, water is about 30%
Lye is 16.5% it looks like. I just did that on a calculator, not sure what soapcalc would say. I made this recipe on the BB lye calc tho

 

[Bubbly Buddha]

That seems like a high percentage of CO to me. How have your soaps performed for you?

Where do you live? Sometimes when it's warm here and I insulate, I get cracking. Do you live where it is warm? Or humid?

 

[Soapsugoii]

Well, I was doing 100/20 CO bars, but some friends said it was too drying. So I added 30% OO and honestly I love the way it feels. I've gotten really good reviews on it, too. I feel clean but not dried out, and the lather is a bit more rich. Been thinking about upping the OO to 40% to play around a bit.

So, you think the CO might be the culprit? That would make me sad, but it would make sense. I live in Los Angeles where it's not too hot and not humid.

I just put a batch of charcoal soap into the mold, and turned a fan onto it. We'll see how it does. I'll check in about 45 mins when I get back from my hike, and hopefully i won't find any cracking, hehe

 

[Soapsugoii]

WTF!!!! RIGHT as I posted my last comment I looked over and a GINORMOUS fissure opened up down the middle of the soap. I think maybe the cool air from the fan running over the top + the hot soap underneath made it crack. Sigh.

I seriously want to like, cry or something.

 

[JackiK]

My bet is on the CO. I've only had that happen one time and it was with a 100% CO bar. Next time, I'll put it in the freezer overnight.

It is heartbreaking. I ended up cutting the tops down past the crack. Such a shame because my swirl on top along with the glitter was really pretty.

Live and learn!

 

[judymoody]

I plugged your recipe into soap calc and it looks like your SF is 19% and your lye concentration is about 35% (or water WRT to oil weight is about 25%). I would use more water in the hopes of diminishing overheating, maybe a lye concentration of 30% (water WRT oils is about 32%). This would be about 424 grams of water as revised.

 

[busymakinsoap!]

I've had over heating lately, I can't figure it out either. But I have increased my CO% and decreased my water amount.

Judy - Just to confirm, does less water increase heat? There is someone on here who keeps saying the more water the hotter - which doesnt make much sense to me, I have mentioned it before and not got a response.

I'm confused :?

 

[nattynoo]

I saw a thread recently on the 'other' forum not long ago Busy about this, I cannot remember the topic title for the life of me.
From what I read on there less water = less heat, something to do with more free flowing particles in the water or something. I might be wrong but the theory of what this person wrote sounded on the dollar to me.
I've dropped my water back lately & am getting less overheating.

Soapsugoii, when you say your temperature you mean Farenheit right??? Not celsius. A bit warm to the touch with your hand on the bowl for the oils, not scorching hot. Just checking..........

Overheating is my enemy :evil: I like ot add alot of different stuff to my soaps so every soap is always a challenge. I keep a close eye for an hour or so to make sure its not ging to do something crazy. I always have space in my freezer to throw soaps in.

 

[Bubbles Galore]

For just one batch, switch your coconut % with your olive %, so use 70% olive and 30% coconut and see what happens and see if you like the soap.

High coconut oil %, along with discounted water and some fragrances or essential oils can cause soap to overheat. I make 100% coconut oil soap with no problems at all - as long as there is no fragrance. Once fragrance is involved, things can get difficult. I found that using individual moulds helped a great deal. :wink:

 

[soapopera]

I saw a thread recently on the 'other' forum not long ago Busy about this, I cannot remember the topic title for the life of me.
From what I read on there less water = less heat, something to do with more free flowing particles in the water or something.

I think it was an article by Kevin Dunn. I did monitor my soap experiments before and I find if I increase water which means lowering the lye concentration, I do get gel or partial gel more easily. But I'm not sure about using this method to combat overheating as I'm also facing this problem recently with Cinnamon Leaf EO as it's also a fast tracer. I'm planning to set a fan over the soap. I've tried this before with my honey GM batch and it came out fine.

 

[Fragola]

Probably if you simply play with the temperatures, you can gel and prevent overheating. Like putting your soap X minutes in the fridge, then leaving it at room temperature.

And if your cooled soap doesn't gel, you can put it later in the oven. I am not sure about this, but I believe that you can gel your soap even few days later, just by gently heating it. But maybe you shouldn't put your wooden mold in the oven.

Soaping at room temperature should help (probably close to the melting point of your coconut, which I believe is 76 degrees).

Also, somebody on this forum said that they put something on top the soap to prevent cracking (don't remember exactly what, maybe some weights).

I know I am pretty vague, but I am inexperienced myself, these are some ideas that you can try, but I am not sure how they will work out.

 

[Soapsugoii]

Thanks for all the responses guys.

I'll play around with my batch tomorrow. Prolly do a 50/50 CO/OO blend, increase the water and decrease the lye, and watch it closely for the first hour or so.

About putting the fan on the soap - I think that's what made the HUGE crack in mine today. I feel like the top hardened and the soap under it was still very active and that's why the crack was so big. Not sure I'll try that again.

The thought of putting something on top of the soap is intriguing. I might try that if nothing else works. I wish CO wasn't such a brat to work with in CP! For me, at least.

Oh, and about the gelling even a couple days after unmolding - has anyone else heard of this? I have a lavender batch that looks nice but just a tad blotchy, I wouldn't mind throwing it back in the oven, except that I already cut it 0.o

 

[Fragola]

Oh, and about the gelling even a couple days after unmolding - has anyone else heard of this?

What made me think of this is the experience of rebatching: as you melt the soap it starts getting translucent, which to me looks very similar to gelled soap.

Also, my original thought was putting the soap in the oven, while inside the mold. I don't think you could gel without melting the soap a little.

Where melting could be a problem if your bars are already cut nicely. If you are really unhappy about them, you could look into rebatching. You may lose some of the scent, if you used any fragrances.

I noticed this post today, somebody is very happy with their rebatch:
http://soapmakingforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=27904

I was never that happy with mine, but I only rebatched "broken soap", where I had already given up on it.

 

[judymoody]

I've had over heating lately, I can't figure it out either. But I have increased my CO% and decreased my water amount.

Judy - Just to confirm, does less water increase heat? There is someone on here who keeps saying the more water the hotter - which doesnt make much sense to me, I have mentioned it before and not got a response.

I'm confused :?

I also have heard the same thing - that more water means that your soap is more likely to gel. So recently when I was experimenting with milk-based soaps, I discounted my water on the theory that it would reduce the risk of overheating. For the very first time, I got major overheating, two batches in succession after a year of successful batches. I asked a soaping friend about this (she is very experienced and knowledgeable) and she said that the more water = more heat is a fallacy and that heat generated had more to do with the size of the batch, soaping temps, and additives like sugars and problematic fragrances. I still don't know the definitive answer as I haven't done controlled experiments. But I used more water with the same recipe (buttermilk & carrot puree), same mold, same soaping temps, and I got a nice even controlled gel.

For the original poster, you might want to up your OO a bit and lower your CO, say 40% OO, 60% CO and perhaps 15% SF along with more water and see what happens. I use a recipe that is 60% OO, 30% CO, 10% PO, and 12% SF which is really nice and trouble-free.

 

[sarawithouth]

Newbie here, but:

The time I experienced cracking is when I accidently bumped the lid off my wooden mold and the soap cooled too quickly (heat escaped) and the soap erupted out! I now make sure to keep the lid firmly on and my molds lightly insulated. No cracks for me

 

[Soapsugoii]

Ok so, batch #2 is in the mold right now. Here are the deets:

4lb wooden BB log mold
60% CO, 40% OO, 18% superfat
1180g oils altogether.

158g lye
330-340g water (full amount)

It's been in the mold for about 30 minutes, and the temp is up to about 104 right now. I didn't put it in the oven, it's just on my counter. It's risen SLIGHTLY (ever, ever so slightly), but it's barely noticable.

I really want full gel though, so I won't stick it in the oven but i'll probably cover it with a cutting board. I'm about to go to work so I'll be gone for seven hours or so. We'll see what it's like when I get back.

Here's crossing my fingers!!! It's definitely cooler than the last batch.

 

[Soapsugoii]

Ok, just a bit of an update. I came home that night and the 60% CO 40%OO batch with full water DID crack... but not nearly as bad as the batches before.

I think I might go 50/50 with the oils and see how it goes. Sigh, I love high CO%, it makes me sad.

Oh, and also, does anyone feel like OO is WAY expensive? Maybe because I bought the 50lb coconut oil tub, i feel like CO is much cheaper...