Is doing M&P Cheating? Like a Box Cake Mix?

[Sheila Pullar]

Here Here!

 

[dixiedragon]

I'm a CP maker myself. I don't think MP is cheating, I just think it is different. I am willing to buy an MP product that is very elaborate and fancy looking - something that could not be created with CP (or at least would be very difficult). But a simple MP bar - such as something with some swirls - I would not be willing to buy, b/c I can do that with CP.

As a customer, I want crafters to be honest with me. Don't tell me that you're using all natural essential oils and you have a Red Velvet Cake soap (or candle or lotion). Let your work speak for itself - don't lie or gloss over things.

I don't have a problem with an MP crafter charging the same thing as a CP crafter. What they charge is there business. If crafter A wants to charge $10 for a 4 oz bar and crafter B wants to charge $4, that's up to them. The only thing that bugs me if a MP crafter says they are making their soap from scratch. Be honest. "I buy a quality soap base that contains Palm Oil, Olive Oil and Cocoa butter (or whatever), then I add fragrance. I hand crafted these little raspberries and put them on top."

People often ask me if I use MP, and I always say, "No. I like to work with lye because it gives me the opportunity to seriously hurt myself."

 

[Dorymae]

The only thing that bugs me if a MP crafter says they are making their soap from scratch. Be honest.

The thing is there are M&P people out there that DO make their own base. If they do I'm all for that, it takes more time and they can make less mistakes because the soap can not be remelted as many times as the store bought stuff. Usually a quick look at the ingredients list will clue you in, although some store bought stuff is getting pretty good now so it will be harder to tell in a basic recipe.

 

[Lindy]

Dorymae why would you have a problem with the other method of making MP creating artistic pieces that we as CPers can never hope to achieve?

 

[LunaSkye]

the M&P Is like the person who makes a Wedding cake out of that .99 cents box mix from the store and uses canned frosting compared to the Artisan who makes her wedding cake from scratch along with custom made butter-cream frosting. To the customers, if both look nice, they will equally buy the cakes without much thought, especially if the prices are exactly the same.

I would not expect a lot of repeat customers with this kind of logic. If I bought both slices and ate them on the same day, I would have no problem telling everyone and anyone that the artisan is the better deal (If I wanted a boxed cake, I can buy it at the store for less). Ultimately, comparing M&P soaps and CP soaps is like comparing Michael Jackson to Prince. You simply can't compare the two equally, though both have their good points.

I love the visuals of M&P soaps and it is perfect for the artist that wants to create something beautiful. However, I will only use what is best for my skin on my skin, which is where CP come in for me. My only critique about the situation is how any organizer would put two soap businesses side by side? One is bound to be hurt by the other. I hope the CP soapers have better days than that.

P.S.: it's my opinion that M&P is only cheating if you pass it off as something you created without putting much work to it. I've seen some bases made without most (if not all) of the questionable ingredients.

 

[Dorymae]

Dorymae why would you have a problem with the other method of making MP creating artistic pieces that we as CPers can never hope to achieve?

Where did I ever say I had a problem with it? I thought I was clear in my first post in this thread exactly how I feel, and I certainly do not have a problem with any soap making or designing. I am curious though how you could think I have something against regular M&P just because I said I'd be all for people making their own. One does not necessitate the other or vise versa. Perhaps you should reread the thread and see all that I wrote.

 

[Lindy]

The thing is there are M&P people out there that DO make their own base. If they do I'm all for that, it takes more time and they can make less mistakes because the soap can not be remelted as many times as the store bought stuff. Usually a quick look at the ingredients list will clue you in, although some store bought stuff is getting pretty good now so it will be harder to tell in a basic recipe.

Sorry I misunderstood your post. The highlighted area is where I got the idea that you had a problem with store-bought MP

 

[LBussy]

So here's the crazy shaver dude's opinion:

I prefer qualities in shaving that I have not seen in M&P soaps. One of them being the ~10pH that begins to soften the beard. Sure there's a lot of people making M&P shaving soap too, some of them do it in commerce and some are on this forum. I don't favor those soaps because so far they have been indistinguishable from commercial "shaving cream" with the exception of the scents and additives. There are a bunch of guys (and gals) out there who use syndet shaving cream and are happy with it. When I put a straight razor up to my face however I want things that I am unable to get from M&P.

I find them interesting; the things you can do with M&P are astounding, and maybe the new bases make these differences a moot point (but I've not seen it yet). I guess both have their place. To the OP: There will be people however who know what they want and will gravitate to the tables who sell what it is they want to buy. Some will buy what's prettiest, some will buy what smells nicest, some will buy what they think is better for their skin. Some people won't know what they want anyway and it doesn't matter who has what.

 

[CookbookChef]

wow, I learned so much reading this thread. Great Job everyone, I learned allot, and this sure has given me allot to think about. I no longer think of melt and pour as soap, but as its own Artisan Creation. I am not sold on it totally, but I see it for something that SURE does have a wonderful place within the soap world. My eyes were opened to allot, and I have a new appreciation for ALL areas of Soap making and what each kind of soap and its technique adds to the business side of soap. Thank you ALL for that.

 

[marilynmac]

Just look at this shop: www.etsy.com/shop/Kokolele.

Beautiful! in a totally different way than CP soap. There's art, and then there's a different kind of art. Both can be appreciated. Both can be terrible.

 

[grumpy_owl]

you just melt it, scent and color and pour into a mold.

Ha! To people who say that, my answer would be, "Nah. Most of what I do is wait." MP folks will know what I mean. For the record, I make both MP and CP for the different flexibilities each offers, and find the apples vs. oranges argument a dead end. Can't we all just get along and make the world a more fabulous-smelling place, full of soft skin and clean people?

 

[CookbookChef]

Beautiful! in a totally different way than CP soap. There's art, and then there's a different kind of art. Both can be appreciated. Both can be terrible.

Ok, that IS ART...I went to the link and saw some very beautiful soap indeed. Question, No, I am NOT trying to copy that work. But, saying that, is their someplace on the internet that can TEACH a person HOW to do works of art like that? Wow indeed my Soapy Friends!! I am sure that person took years of hard work to make that ART, so, please direct me where I can BEGIN to learn the HOW in making such art happen. I am sure she or he had a starting place, does anybody here know where I can learn to do such art? thanks

 

[Conman]

Admittedly I have not made soap myself yet but I know and have seen the processes involved.

I look at this and I see 2 worlds Art and Buisness so first you need to ask are you selling art or luxury soap?

From a buisness perspective) Remember that price is about value in the eyes consumer not the maker or his competition. The price of soap is not to be defined by the process but by the demand of the customer. If in the eyes of the consumer a M&P soap is the Sam as a CP soap then by all means their prices should be the same and other factors will decide price changes and sales. The burden is on the maker to explain why their process is better and I tried harder is not a valid answer.

I will even go as far to say the price of CP soap should be less than M&P soap. CP soap has better margins and they can sell for $4.25 a bar a customer would be willing to pay $5.00 where as a M&P guy may not be able to do that and guess what the CP guy makes more money.

From an art perspective as I said before you have to be able to communicate why your process is better and I worked harder is not the right answer. The amount of work put into it is not a determiner of value if the finished product is not any better as a result. Again the value of the piece boils down to what the customer will pay for it.

 

[LBussy]

From a buisness perspective) Remember that price is about value in the eyes consumer not the maker or his competition. The price of soap is not to be defined by the process but by the demand of the customer.

Truth.

I will even go as far to say the price of CP soap should be less than M&P soap. CP soap has better margins

Strawman fallacy.

Just because the ingredients may be less expensive does not mean the difference is not made up in operating costs (labor, storage, money left on he shelves "curing.")

From an art perspective as I said before you have to be able to communicate why your process is better and I worked harder is not the right answer. The amount of work put into it is not a determiner of value if the finished product is not any better as a result. Again the value of the piece boils down to what the customer will pay for it.

Truth again ... pretty good for a person with that screen handle.

 

[Conman]

Truth.


Strawman fallacy.

Just because the ingredients may be less expensive does not mean the difference is not made up in operating costs (labor, storage, money left on he shelves "curing.")


Truth again ... pretty good for a person with that screen handle.

Lol I admit i don't know anything about the cost of each process I was just told that CP had better margins thought that included everything

 

[LBussy]

Lol I admit i don't know anything about the cost of each process I was just told that CP had better margins thought that included everything

I think too many people fail to "pay themselves" and that's part of a business model.

 

[dillsandwitch]

I have tried both M&P and CP. Personally I prefer the CP over the M&P. The reason being behind this this is that I am about as creative as a rock.

For me the M&P was just melt, add colour/fragrance and into mould because when I look at it all I see is a blob of white or clear soap. No vision at all.

Now with the CP I can add my colours and fragrance and do the swirls and I am happy with what I have made. Maybe it has something to do with the I made all this from scratch thing. That feeling of accomplishment. I just don’t feel that with M&P.

Don’t get me wrong I will happily admire and or purchase a M&P soap if it takes my fancy but as the soaper I have my preference as I'm sure each and every one out there does.

 

[CookbookChef]

I have tried both M&P and CP. Personally I prefer the CP over the M&P. The reason being behind this this is that I am about as creative as a rock.

For me the M&P was just melt, add colour/fragrance and into mould because when I look at it all I see is a blob of white or clear soap. No vision at all.

Now with the CP I can add my colours and fragrance and do the swirls and I am happy with what I have made. Maybe it has something to do with the I made all this from scratch thing. That feeling of accomplishment. I just don’t feel that with M&P.

Don’t get me wrong I will happily admire and or purchase a M&P soap if it takes my fancy but as the soaper I have my preference as I'm sure each and every one out there does.

I feel just like this....exactly. Made from Scratch FEELS old fashioned. For me at least. It FEELS as if I have really done something to be proud of. Melt and Pour TO ME, feels like I BOUGHT the soap, and changed it some. It still is soap, just like CP is soap, but at the end of the day I get a Good Feeling of accomplishment when I make a batch of CP soap, be it good looking, or be it simple as an oatmeal bar. I made it, and thats where to me I feel some satisfaction. Just like, I grow my own nails. I get satisfaction by having long nails that I grew myself over time. I invested Time, not money. I say that cause my Friend tells everyone who asks her "Oh wow, are your nails your own? they look so beautiful?" And she will give a positive "YES" she believes that she PAID for the nails at a salon, so yes,, those are HER nails. I grow my nails, she pays for them. They are BOTH our own nails. I guess its all perspective. I have seen some Beautiful Decorated fake nails on my friend. Sometimes her nails look more fancy than my home grown nails. But at the end of the day, I FEEL a satisfaction knowing that I grew my own nails. So, same with Cold Process Soap. I made it, at the end of the day, I made it myself.
Would I buy or use other soap....YES

 

[bbrown]

Do what makes you happy. They both are excellent and both have pros and cons. There is a market for everything.

 

[Susie]

MP gives options that CP does not.

CP gives options that MP does not.

Do what makes you happy and be proud of what you created.