user 58006
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Feb 20, 2023
- Messages
- 235
- Reaction score
- 118
Is 5 % pine tar enough to make a difference in soap ?
Is 5 % pine tar enough in soap ?
- Thread starter user 58006
- Start date
Help Support Soapmaking Forum:
I don't know what "difference" you have in mind, but yes, 5% is fine to use when making pine tar soap.
I think soap makers often use 10-20% but I suspect the popular "Grandpa's Pine Tar" soap is about 5% pine tar.
I talk about this more here: Pine tar soap | Soapy Stuff
I think soap makers often use 10-20% but I suspect the popular "Grandpa's Pine Tar" soap is about 5% pine tar.
I talk about this more here: Pine tar soap | Soapy Stuff
user 58006
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Feb 20, 2023
- Messages
- 235
- Reaction score
- 118
Just if you'd get the full benefits of the pine tar
I make and sell pine tar soap, but I never make any claims about what it can and cannot do. There are no research studies that show there are any medicinal benefits from pine tar soap ... basically only anecdotes and testimonials, which aren't reliable. I'm open to having my mind changed, but so far I have not seen any evidence that pine tar is efficacious.
Also HOW you use a medicinal soap is as important as the active ingredient in the soap itself. Assuming pine tar is effective, but you lather up and rinse it off like most people do when they bathe, it has almost no chance to do any good.
Also HOW you use a medicinal soap is as important as the active ingredient in the soap itself. Assuming pine tar is effective, but you lather up and rinse it off like most people do when they bathe, it has almost no chance to do any good.
user 58006
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Feb 20, 2023
- Messages
- 235
- Reaction score
- 118
Very good information. Thank you very much .
You put tar on horse hooves for threatment so I guess it does some god. (or if its just for moisture protection I don't know...).
I use 10 % tar when I'm doing tar soap and it works fine for me. (adding some cedar and trea tree oil gives a good differeent fragrance)
I use 10 % tar when I'm doing tar soap and it works fine for me. (adding some cedar and trea tree oil gives a good differeent fragrance)
I use 15%. I love the darker color as well.
I typically use 20% pine tar when making that soap for my friends who request it. They swear that it helps their skin issues. My husband (who also has skin issues) doesn't care for it; he prefers neem oil. So I think the "effectiveness" (making no claims here) has more to do with the person using it.
Zany_in_CO
Saponifier
Same here. I've made it several times over the years, for customers and family but never got any feedback as to positive results. It's kinda like goat milk soap. People know it's supposed to be good for skin and are drawn to it for that reason.I always used 20% pine tar, the optimum recommended amount.
PINE TAR SOAP TIPS & TECHINQUE
I guess I haver to go from 10 to 20% of tar next time! My soap gets dark with the tar I use today (10%) and thickens very fast so its more about scooping than pouring and they don't looks so good. But its for my personal use.
I too have heard this idea that 20% pine tar is the "recommended" amount for medicinal results. But I've never seen any creditable information, even results from users' informal dermatology experiments, as the reason why 20% is better than the others. I've repeatedly asked ... and got nothing other than "I heard it on the internet so it must be true" kinds of justifications.
Some opinions get passed around the soap making community until they become "proven facts" without a shred of evidence to provide actual credibility to the claim. IMO, this recommendation is one of these mythical facts.
Make pine tar at 20% if you want to. Or at 5% or 10% or 15% or whatever. Until someone can offer a reasonable basis for using a particular amount, they're all good.
Some opinions get passed around the soap making community until they become "proven facts" without a shred of evidence to provide actual credibility to the claim. IMO, this recommendation is one of these mythical facts.
Make pine tar at 20% if you want to. Or at 5% or 10% or 15% or whatever. Until someone can offer a reasonable basis for using a particular amount, they're all good.
I asked ChatGPT... "does tar soap have any medical effects on skin or humans"
Tar soap, which typically contains coal tar as one of its active ingredients, is known for its potential medical effects on the skin. It has been used for various dermatological conditions and can offer several benefits. Here are some of the potential effects of tar soap on the skin:
1. Anti-inflammatory properties: Tar soap's anti-inflammatory properties can help reduce inflammation, redness, and itching associated with conditions like psoriasis, eczema, and seborrheic dermatitis.
2. Antimicrobial effects: Tar soap may have mild antimicrobial properties that can help inhibit the growth of bacteria and fungi on the skin. This can be useful for conditions like acne or fungal infections.
3. Exfoliation and skin cell turnover: Tar soap can assist in the exfoliation of dead skin cells, promoting skin cell turnover. This can be beneficial for conditions such as psoriasis, where there is an abnormal build-up of skin cells.
4. Sebum regulation: Tar soap may help regulate sebum production in the skin, making it potentially helpful for conditions like acne or seborrheic dermatitis, which involve excessive sebum production.
5. Soothing and moisturizing effects: Tar soap can have a soothing effect on the skin and may help alleviate itching and dryness. It can provide some moisturizing benefits, which can be beneficial for dry or irritated skin.
It's important to note that the effectiveness of tar soap may vary depending on the individual and the specific skin condition. Additionally, some people may be more sensitive to tar and may experience skin irritation or allergic reactions. If you're considering using tar soap for a medical purpose, it's advisable to consult with a dermatologist or healthcare professional who can evaluate your condition and provide appropriate guidance.
Tar soap, which typically contains coal tar as one of its active ingredients, is known for its potential medical effects on the skin. It has been used for various dermatological conditions and can offer several benefits. Here are some of the potential effects of tar soap on the skin:
1. Anti-inflammatory properties: Tar soap's anti-inflammatory properties can help reduce inflammation, redness, and itching associated with conditions like psoriasis, eczema, and seborrheic dermatitis.
2. Antimicrobial effects: Tar soap may have mild antimicrobial properties that can help inhibit the growth of bacteria and fungi on the skin. This can be useful for conditions like acne or fungal infections.
3. Exfoliation and skin cell turnover: Tar soap can assist in the exfoliation of dead skin cells, promoting skin cell turnover. This can be beneficial for conditions such as psoriasis, where there is an abnormal build-up of skin cells.
4. Sebum regulation: Tar soap may help regulate sebum production in the skin, making it potentially helpful for conditions like acne or seborrheic dermatitis, which involve excessive sebum production.
5. Soothing and moisturizing effects: Tar soap can have a soothing effect on the skin and may help alleviate itching and dryness. It can provide some moisturizing benefits, which can be beneficial for dry or irritated skin.
It's important to note that the effectiveness of tar soap may vary depending on the individual and the specific skin condition. Additionally, some people may be more sensitive to tar and may experience skin irritation or allergic reactions. If you're considering using tar soap for a medical purpose, it's advisable to consult with a dermatologist or healthcare professional who can evaluate your condition and provide appropriate guidance.
I forgott the actial question... "what is the recommended percentage of tar in tar soap"
The recommended percentage of tar in tar soap can vary depending on the specific product and the intended use. However, coal tar concentrations in tar soaps typically range from 0.5% to 5%.
Lower concentrations, such as 0.5% to 1%, are often used for mild conditions or for maintenance therapy to help prevent flare-ups. Higher concentrations, around 2% to 5%, may be recommended for more severe or stubborn skin conditions.
It's important to follow the instructions provided by the manufacturer or the guidance of a healthcare professional when using tar soap. They can help determine the appropriate concentration based on your specific needs and condition.
Keep in mind that tar can be drying to the skin, so it's advisable to use tar soap in moderation and follow up with a suitable moisturizer to prevent excessive dryness. Additionally, if you experience any adverse reactions or your symptoms worsen with the use of tar soap, it's essential to discontinue use and consult with a healthcare professional for further guidance.
The recommended percentage of tar in tar soap can vary depending on the specific product and the intended use. However, coal tar concentrations in tar soaps typically range from 0.5% to 5%.
Lower concentrations, such as 0.5% to 1%, are often used for mild conditions or for maintenance therapy to help prevent flare-ups. Higher concentrations, around 2% to 5%, may be recommended for more severe or stubborn skin conditions.
It's important to follow the instructions provided by the manufacturer or the guidance of a healthcare professional when using tar soap. They can help determine the appropriate concentration based on your specific needs and condition.
Keep in mind that tar can be drying to the skin, so it's advisable to use tar soap in moderation and follow up with a suitable moisturizer to prevent excessive dryness. Additionally, if you experience any adverse reactions or your symptoms worsen with the use of tar soap, it's essential to discontinue use and consult with a healthcare professional for further guidance.
Zany_in_CO
Saponifier
Zany_in_CO
Saponifier
Good advice. The Tips & Techniques I posted above still hold true even though the optimum amount of pine tar Use Rate is 20%. This is based on a large group of experienced professional soapmakers from the Southern Soapers Yahoo Group (Now Defunct).I always use 20% PT. It traces fast! I made it for a wholesale customer who sold it to mostly customers of color who requested it. From my own experience making it for friends and family the expected "positive feedback" didn't happen! Quite the opposite... "Meh."
So, based on that, I agree with @DeeAnna -- use as much or as little PT as you want -- unless you get a customer's request. In that case, ask them for the brand they use. Determine how much PT is in that brand and go from there. Check out the ingredient list for the rest of the ingredients to formulate a duplicate recipe.
HTH
The information regurgitated by an AI is not something I can accept at face value as reliable. Readers have no way of verifying the information and double checking the validity of the "facts."
In the case of pine tar, I can tell you that the AI answers you're quoting are NOT based on actual dermatological research done on pine tar nor do they reflect the body of knowledge known by soap makers. These answers are basically a regurgitation of the "common wisdom" being passed around on various websites.
Please don't rely on this information as being accurate.
edit: And the fact that a large group of soap makers says 20% pine tar is the optimum also doesn't mean it's correct. Good information is good information not because a herd of folks believe in it, but because it can be shown to be accurate.
Since I've been involved in the online soap making community, I have realized a fair bit of the "common wisdom" about soap making has become "wisdom" simply because many people say it's so.
Until there's a way to verify the reasons for this belief that 20% pine tar is indeed the optimum, I remain extremely skeptical.
In the case of pine tar, I can tell you that the AI answers you're quoting are NOT based on actual dermatological research done on pine tar nor do they reflect the body of knowledge known by soap makers. These answers are basically a regurgitation of the "common wisdom" being passed around on various websites.
Please don't rely on this information as being accurate.
edit: And the fact that a large group of soap makers says 20% pine tar is the optimum also doesn't mean it's correct. Good information is good information not because a herd of folks believe in it, but because it can be shown to be accurate.
Since I've been involved in the online soap making community, I have realized a fair bit of the "common wisdom" about soap making has become "wisdom" simply because many people say it's so.
Until there's a way to verify the reasons for this belief that 20% pine tar is indeed the optimum, I remain extremely skeptical.
Last edited:
Zany_in_CO
Saponifier
With all due respect, from my experience, dermatologists are the worst! Like most physicians, as well as their patients, they/we are victims of the pharmaceuticals. Just ask my next door neighbor, a pharmacist. Doctors go to her for suggestions of what to try next if something doesn't work. And so it begins... the long journey and expense of trying one drug after another that simply do not work. (Ask any mother that has a teenager with acne.) Dermatologists rely on treating patients with steroids and statins that are more harmful than helpful and may lead to brain damage over time.
Being knowledgeable about alternative medicine is the best recourse for good health. Doctors know little about that... and tend to pooh-pooh whatever a patient asks about in terms of a natural option. If you find one who is willing to give something a go, then you have the best of both worlds. I have been lucky in that. My PCP is open to learning from me.
Can anyone explain why the Pine Tar is calculated as part of your oil weight in Soap Calc if it does not saponify? I don't know the chemistry well enough to understand why this isn't just added as an additive...
Pine tar is on the list of oils and butters on lye calculators but it does not saponify. Good luck -- it is tricky to work with!
