Instantly curing soap

[dobaym]

HI!
We got some Olive product, said to be good for soap making, but the moment I poured the lye solution in, it cured into a very thick custard instantly.
Then some water started appearing in the pot, and I guessed it must have been something other then pure oil, and since there was less oil to the amount of lye added it cured.

Does anyone have any experience's like this, or any ideas what to do with this stuff?
Should I ad more of this, and maybe pour out the water, or is it too late once it has thickened?
Or should I pour in some pure oil?

Please share if you have any ideas

Thanks!

 

[reallyrita]

For sure you have some adulterated olive oil. What the heck all is in it is going to be a mystery. This sounds like bad stuff. Maybe you should return it to the retailer. You could track down the company that puts it out and find out what else is in it...if they will even tell you. I don't know that you should be using this oil without knowing what it really is. Hopefully someone more experienced with this sort of thing will chime in here.

 

[Manchy]

i agree with reallyrita, if you don't know what it is, you cannot know the sap value, so it's not safe to soap with it.

olive product? i'm not sure if i understand this? maybe it's some kind of hydrogenated olive oil, or olive oil margarine or shortening? maybe you could find out from the producer, and somehow calculate the real sap value? but why would you want to mess with that whole thing?

 

[carebear]

just to clarify a little, since the soaping lingo is a bit confusing - your soap "traced" quickly (reached thick trace). cure is what you let your soap do after it's out of the mold and cut = to allow it to harden further and become a bit milder.

that does NOT sound like olive oil which normally takes much longer than other oils to reach trace. as to what to do with the resulting soap, I myself would probably throw it out since you don't really know what is in it.

but maybe you can clarify for us - what do you mean by "olive product"?

 

[dobaym]

Thank all of you for your answers.
Sorry for the lingo mix, its trace, and rather thick trace I wanted to say.

I agree in not using the stuff anymore.
The way the whole thing happened is, that I have been making soap out of xtra virgin OO for about 2 years now, and always from the same dealer.
I get it directly from the man who brings it from Sicily from the producer.
I have never had any problem with the oil received from them.
Once my friend told them that I make soap out of there xtra virgin OO, and they said I should rather use this other stuff for soap making, because the xtra virgin is too valuable.
So after sending them 3 emails asking what the difference is, how they make this stuff, and what is it really, getting no reply ( since they are hardly people who use the internet )I tried the stuff. Mainly just to get over it allready.
Well thats the story, I just had some hope, that its something that happens regularly when using some well known byproduct of OO.
I see I should just forget it and use oil, and next time not experiment with stuff I don't know anything about, even if someone says its great for soap making : )
Thanks again for all your replies!

 

[Manchy]

ok, from this i think it should be pomace olive oil that we're talking about here
yes, it gets to trace A LOT faster than evoo does, so maybe that's what confused you. it's very different. but also normal for this kind of oil. what still confuses me is the water that appeared in your bowl :shock:

actually, if you were soaping with pomace exactly how you would do with evoo this would be the typical result (except for the water part).

could you write a bit more, which quantities you used for oil, water and lye? also, at which temperature did you soap? maybe we find out what's going on

 

[anita]

I always use pomace olive oil for my soaping and it traces super quick. I can't explain the water on top though. Maybe you didn't get a chance to mix in the lye properly because of it tracing so fast and this is the water you are seeing.

 

[xyxoxy]

One of the things that has me confused is when you say...

...and since there was less oil to the amount of lye added...

Are you saying there is more lye than oil?

As mentioned, some more info on exactly what you mean by "Olive Product" as well as the measurements you used would be very helpful.

 

[dobaym]

So here goes:

could you write a bit more, which quantities you used for oil, water and lye? also, at which temperature did you soap?

"oil": 1000gr (35.27o)
lye: 128.7gr (4.53o)
water: 380gr (13.37o)

They where both at 32 degrees celsius (89.6F).

One of the things that has me confused is when you say...
Quote:
...and since there was less oil to the amount of lye added...


Are you saying there is more lye than oil?

No, I meant to say that I thought the supposed oil was 100% oil, thats what I calculated with, but since this see through fluid (i suppose water) was also in it, it would have needed less lye for the true oil quantity.

I always use pomace olive oil for my soaping and it traces super quick.

But this traced the exact moment I poured the lye-water in it, I could hardly mix it with my spatula.

As mentioned, some more info on exactly what you mean by "Olive Product" as well as the measurements you used would be very helpful.

I don't know, I have asked, but the olive grower hasn't answered yet, if I get an answer I'll post it!

There is something though that I can write about it, it is very dark green, much darker than any oil I have seen, and has the smell of whole olives with there seeds in them. Before I we started making the soap, I even told my wife that it looks like its thinner than the oil usually does, and seems like it contains water.

Its great to have all these responses, thanks!

P.s.: I live in central Europe, so thats why I write with this delay, its 08:23pm here right now.

 

[Manchy]

i'm baffled with your description of the "olive product" lol ...

well, keep us informed, it sure sounds interesting!

p.s. i think we're neighbours (i'm from croatia).

 

[dobaym]

Manchy!

I live in the south western part of Hungary, so we are neighbors : ).

Do you happen to know someone who grows olives organically, and has some cheap oil, maybe expired... I'm searching for a better source than the one I have now.

 

[sistrum]

Maybe you did get some watered down oil.
Whenever I buy olive oil I always check it first by putting a small amount of it in a jar in the fridge. Pure olive oil will turn cloudy and thick when it gets cold.
Good Luck and keep us posted.

 

[Manchy]

i don't understand - how is one even able to water down oil?? ok, if it was mixed with some other vegetable oil, that still wouldn't explain the water, as the sap values are so close for most of the oils.

dobaym, actually most of the people in my area, and my paretns, too grow olives organically and cold press them. we even hand pick them; it's very hilly so no cars or machines can get there easiliy.. but, it's not certified organic. another problem is with exporting to eu, as we're not part of it, and there're some restrictions.

standrad price for a liter of olive oil is around 11 € / l. cheapest i heard of was around 6€, and prices go up to 15€ (ok, some exclusive oils are higher, but i'm talking about the normal range here).

how do these prices compare to those you get from sicily?

 

[dobaym]

The price I get the oil for is 10euros. But since I make pure olive oil soap it is way to expensive. We just started soap making with this oil that we loved to eat, but since the soap turned out so great, we kept on making it, and don't want to stop! That's why I am looking for expired organic oil, because I want to stick to the quality of oil, but not the price.
Its great that your parents grow olives, have you made any castille soap using it, or is it valued much more then to have soap made out of it?
I am looking for certified oil, if I can get it.

 

[Manchy]

yes, i make soaps from my own oil. but just because we have more than we can eat, and it's very hard to sell pure olive oil in a region where everyone grows their own olives.

about expired organic oil... i'm not sure would the "organic" help anything to you, if the oil is expired. when oil is expired it smells weird, and actually i never tried to make soap from such oil (also i can not remember seeing expired oil in long time - people usually use it all up before it gets any chance to become expired).

maybe you could try to find some olive pomace oil. it makes great soaps, and price is much lower then evoo. i know italy is big producer of pomace (also spain), but in croatia not single oil press company produces oil from pomace (which is a big shame, and pomace became ecological problem here. only part of it gets used as fertilizer, rest is just waste).
also, maybe you could look in some big supermarkets if they sell pomace olive oil, so you could save for the shipping.