Ingredient ? Animal Fat ? Labels ?

[Vic1963]

I know there has been alot of Lard discussions lately.....But I have one more question.

I love my soaps with Lard..., but I have yet to see any soap on any site for sell....besides Grannys, that has lard listed as an ingredient .

So is that meaning....Lard is ok to use for soap you make for yourself.......but if you are going to make it to sell.....that it is not a good ingredient ? I notice a lot of sellers have on there..... NO ANIMAL FATS use in our soap. Does that mean animal fats is a bad thing ?

I guess maybe it don't look as lavish on the label. Tallow don't seem hardly as meaty...LOL

Just thinking before I go much further, should reconsider what kind of soap I want to make.

My Lemon soap I made last week with the bubble wrap was Lard and Coconut and my favorite soap I have made so far.

 

[TessC]

It's all in who you're marketing to, imo. The "no animal fats" thing appeals to some people (most of whom probably wouldn't bat an eye over using a bar of Dove, but I digress) but won't mean anything to others.

I'm not selling and I won't even mail freebies to most people until I get insurance, but I do have a handful of people who are intrigued by the lard soaps and want to try them eventually. I also know a couple of vegans who are utterly and completely horrified by the idea, understandably.

Animal fats aren't inherently "bad", it's just that some people don't like the idea. *shrug*

 

[Guest]

I love my lard soap too .If you google sodium lardate in handmade soap , tons come up for sale . It wouldn't be listed as lard but saponified lard is sodium lardate .

HTH

Kitn

 

[artisan soaps]

..

 

[Vic1963]

I am always very plain and honest and up front with everyone... and it has mostly just been my family and friends using my soap anyway and trying out my recipes . And they don't care what it is made out of , as long as it smells good and bubbles, lol. I was just trying to research a little , just in case I do ever decide to try and do anything with it.


I do wrap and label it after it gets hard, cause I feel like it makes it pretty, and it also helps me remember what it is in it. And when I give it away , they know what it in there.

And I do have it listed as Lard on my label.

Thanks for all your replies...... I sure do appreciate it. This is a great forum !

 

[krissy]

It's not a matter of 'better', it's just one train of marketing ..

When I read 'saponified oils of' and it contains Lard or Tallow, I always feel like they're trying to fool the buyer .. May not the case yet it seems to regularly be the ones using animals products who list is as such, and I confess I lose a little respect at the strategy ..

I don't sell or make labels, but I tell people straight up what's in my soap, and other than Vegans no-one has ever had issue .. I think it's an excellent addition to soap full stop!

i don't understand. how does it sound shady if i write on the label of a bar of soap?
Ingredients: Saponified oils of Lard, Coconut, Olive and Castor.
isn't that exactly what it is? Saponified Oils?
how is that better or worse than saying stuff like sodium lardate, or sodium.... whatever?
i like saying saponified Oils because then i and others can recognize the ingredients as what they are, whether that be lard, tallow, coconut, olive or whatever without trying to figure out that sodium lardate= lard.
maybe i am thinking weird but i think that when it say sodium whatever it doesn't sound as natural and sounds "chemicalish".

 

[agriffin]

It's not a matter of 'better', it's just one train of marketing ..

When I read 'saponified oils of' and it contains Lard or Tallow, I always feel like they're trying to fool the buyer .. May not the case yet it seems to regularly be the ones using animals products who list is as such, and I confess I lose a little respect at the strategy ..

I don't sell or make labels, but I tell people straight up what's in my soap, and other than Vegans no-one has ever had issue .. I think it's an excellent addition to soap full stop!

i don't understand. how does it sound shady if i write on the label of a bar of soap?
Ingredients: Saponified oils of Lard, Coconut, Olive and Castor.
isn't that exactly what it is? Saponified Oils?
how is that better or worse than saying stuff like sodium lardate, or sodium.... whatever?
i like saying saponified Oils because then i and others can recognize the ingredients as what they are, whether that be lard, tallow, coconut, olive or whatever without trying to figure out that sodium lardate= lard.
maybe i am thinking weird but i think that when it say sodium whatever it doesn't sound as natural and sounds "chemicalish".

I was wondering that also. Maybe I was reading the response incorrectly. But they are suponified oils of...whatever oils you use. To me it's shady to use sodium lardate and all that...maybe not shady but I like to keep things simple for those using my soap that might not know what sodium lardate is...

 

[TheSoapyEwe]

I love my lard soaps and market them as "ole fashioned soaps", you know like grandma used to make.
I list the INCI names but after each one I also list the regular term, ie lard, coconut, olive etc.
That way I'm within guidelines and my customers know exactly what's in my soaps.

 

[Lindy]

I make and sell Tallow soap on a regular basis - I list the ingredients as "Tallow (Sodium Taoowate)" so that people can understand exactly what is in the product. I started out using the term Saponified oils of ~~~ but since tallow and lard are fats rather than oils I wanted to get a little more accurate. By using the INCI - Sodium Tallowate - or Sodium Olivate - it says it is soap. I think I have lost exactly one sale because I sell some soaps that cantain animal fats but most vegans respect the fact that not everyone makes the same choices as they do and will buy the vegan products that I carry.

At least that is my take on it....I am really up front with my customers as to what is in my soaps.....

 

[IrishLass]

Actually, lots of web soapers have lard and tallow soaps (I was just looking at some last night), and they are not in any way shy about it, which I am always so glad about.

Lard and tallow are such wondermous soaping fats that we lard/tallow lovers shouldn't ever need to feel ashamed just because a few handfuls of people here and there are squeamish about such ingredients (please-no offense intended towards those who are squeamish :wink: ). Truly, I've found that the vast majority of people either love lard and tallow soaps, or else they really don't give a care.

Besides listing lard and/or tallow in my ingredients on the back label of my soaps, I also list on my front label whether they were made with my lard or lard/tallow formula, or my all veggie fomula so people can know what they are getting right up front. I'm not in business yet, but in view to when I am, I have the all- veggie soap formula in my lineup to offer besides my lard and tallow soaps.


IrishLass

 

[Guest]

Oils are fats too.

 

[Vinca Leaf]

As a veggie soaper, I don't use lard, tallow, etc...but like someone said it's preference, kwim? And if I were a customer, full disclosure goes a LONG way. As in, this bar has lard, while this bar is veg friendly. Mkay, sounds good.

Although, I was just thinking....I don't let meat-products consort with my veggie products (like, different pans, cutting boards, etc) Wonder how many people would get the ewww factor from soap mixed in the same containers?

 

[Vic1963]

Thanks for the advice, I had thought of putting Old Fashion on the Lard one, and Veggie on the others. My Mamaw always made Lard soap when we were growing up. But hers was not for bathing.....it was for laundry and cleaning.

Anyway, Lots of good answers and advice.... I feel much better about just staying with my recipe that I like so good.

 

[artisan soaps]

..

 

[Lindy]

As a veggie soaper, I don't use lard, tallow, etc...but like someone said it's preference, kwim? And if I were a customer, full disclosure goes a LONG way. As in, this bar has lard, while this bar is veg friendly. Mkay, sounds good.

Although, I was just thinking....I don't let meat-products consort with my veggie products (like, different pans, cutting boards, etc) Wonder how many people would get the ewww factor from soap mixed in the same containers?

My soap pots are always cleaned between uses. I never use it with remnants of the last batch of soap still in it. Otherwise I would have to list that it may have traces of ~~~. This way when I label my soaps it's accurate in my ingredient list. I also keep my soaps separated in cardboard boxes when I pack up for the kiosk because I don't want cross-contamination of scents in my soaps. Ask me how I learned that one.... :wink:

Artisan Soaps - you're comment and feelings are valid. There are people who love the lard or tallow in soap but are afraid to admit that it's in their product. I believe to be successful not just at soap but in my relationships honesty is the only way to go. But that's just me.... :?

 

[rob]

Just my opinion, and halfway off-topic, but i think that the shadiness involved in using the phrase "saponified oils of..." on a label has more to do with the lye than any animal fat. Whenever ppl ask me how i make soap, and i explain it, they always balk at the lye part. They make comments about how dangerous/nasty/abrasive lye is. An acquaintence of mine wouldn't use my soap because it has lye. I told her that all soap has lye or a very similar alkali in it; she showed me that kiss my face has "only" saponified olive oil in it. This triggered memories of someone's website, where at the top of each page, it said something like "all soap has lye in it" or "you cannot make soap without lye", or something to that effect.

Yes, listing "saponified oils of.." on ingredients is thoroughly honest, because it is true, and for those of us who know what saponified means, it might not seem shady. But, i believe that that phrasing is borne of a knowledge that ppl who aren't hip to the fact that there's lye involved in saponification are also sometimes mortified that they're rubbing a substance that involves lye on their skin. Never mind all the other harsh chemicals modern ppl expose themselves to, everyday.

Which brings me back to the OP's original topic. I suspect that ppl who buy handmade soap are exploring a part of their own personality that may be best described as "hippie". Of course, this will lead to curiosity about how organic/sustainable/green/natty your soap is, and *lye* doesn't seem green to most folks. Similarly, lard or tallow seems decidedly un-hippy, and even non-vegetarian folks examining your soap may be turned off by lard in the recipe. Even if they had a bacon cheeseburger for lunch, they *expect* bacon and beef in a burger. They don't expect lard in a thing that they assume is hippie, like handmade soap. (I'm not saying that handmade soap is hippie, but i'm saying that there's a pervasive perception that it is. As a guy who makes soap, most ppl ask if i'm a hippie when they find out about my hobby.)

Of course, few ppl read labels on things like ivory or dial. Those companies could print "made with kittens, heroin, and napalm" on their labels, and not even notice a drop in sales. I think that ppl who are selling soap online or at "farmer's" markets know that lard and lye and stuff like that will earn very few customers, but possibly lose many who have cuddlier preconceptions about handmade soap...

sorry for the monstrous post. i'm just that kind of guy.
-rob

It's not a matter of 'better', it's just one train of marketing ..

When I read 'saponified oils of' and it contains Lard or Tallow, I always feel like they're trying to fool the buyer .. May not the case yet it seems to regularly be the ones using animals products who list is as such, and I confess I lose a little respect at the strategy ..

I don't sell or make labels, but I tell people straight up what's in my soap, and other than Vegans no-one has ever had issue .. I think it's an excellent addition to soap full stop!

i don't understand. how does it sound shady if i write on the label of a bar of soap?
Ingredients: Saponified oils of Lard, Coconut, Olive and Castor.
isn't that exactly what it is? Saponified Oils?
how is that better or worse than saying stuff like sodium lardate, or sodium.... whatever?
i like saying saponified Oils because then i and others can recognize the ingredients as what they are, whether that be lard, tallow, coconut, olive or whatever without trying to figure out that sodium lardate= lard.
maybe i am thinking weird but i think that when it say sodium whatever it doesn't sound as natural and sounds "chemicalish".

 

[topcat]

I list 'saponifed oils of' on my labels as, once the saponification is complete, there is no lye/caustic soda/sodium hydroxide left - it is the catalyst that is used to create the salts which are soap. If you list an item that is used in the process of creating a product that is no longer in the product, that can be just as misleading as trying to hide it imho.

If a potential customer asks me how I make soap I explain exactly what I do (probably in far too much detail, but I am passionate about making soap and will talk your ear off if you get me started :wink: ). When I get my website up and running I plan to have a page with an explanation of how CP soap is made by me, so I can educate my potential customers there too.

Tanya

 

[andreja]

I list 'saponifed oils of' on my labels as, once the saponification is complete, there is no lye/caustic soda/sodium hydroxide left - it is the catalyst that is used to create the salts which are soap. If you list an item that is used in the process of creating a product that is no longer in the product, that can be just as misleading as trying to hide it imho.

Well, I think of it this way. Lye isn't catalyst, but it's reactant. Catalysts are usually used in very small amounts. It's used to accelerate an reaction, while itself (catalyst) stays unaffected. So, it IS an ingredient. I mean we also see the list of all ingredients used to make a cake for example. BUT I do agree that people get freaked out when they see lye as an ingredient.

 

[rob]

I list 'saponifed oils of' on my labels as, once the saponification is complete, there is no lye/caustic soda/sodium hydroxide left - it is the catalyst that is used to create the salts which are soap. If you list an item that is used in the process of creating a product that is no longer in the product, that can be just as misleading as trying to hide it imho.


Tanya

This is a good point, which is why i used the somewhat nebulous term "involved", rather than saying that there's lye *in* it. However, i think your approach is a good one, in that you're trying to educate your customer. I'm not very good at explaining the chemical process of saponification, but i think alot of ppl are either not willing or not able to understand that, if you put an ingredient in a pot, and you don't take it out, then it is somehow still *there*. The idea that something can be altered, chemically, to the point that it's changed into *something else* is difficult for the casual soap-junkie to grasp.

i'm brand new to the hobby, so i don't sell anything to anyone, but i tend to think about how marketing relates to most of my interests regularly.

-rob

 

[chrisinflorida]

I make and sell different types of CP soap, including lard soaps. Here is one of my listings:

http://www.etsy.com/view_listing.php?li ... d=28738422

I list lard in the ingredients (along with sodium hydroxide) here and on the label. I don't use the phrase 'saponified oils of.' I just say what's in the soap.

Chris